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Canonical's Mir Project Retracts Wayland Criticism

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  • Canonical's Mir Project Retracts Wayland Criticism

    Phoronix: Canonical's Mir Project Retracts Wayland Criticism

    If you are now to look at Ubuntu's Mir specification page for their new display server, you will see that their open criticism of Wayland/Weston has disappeared...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTMxODY

  • #2
    "different requirement" = nazi-style control and CLA.

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    • #3
      so, classical NIH at its finest

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      • #4
        Please folks (both Mir and Wayland devs), it doesn't matter that time has been wasted. What matters is that somehow you folks find common ground and work together openly.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by funkSTAR View Post
          "different requirement" = nazi-style control and CLA.
          This.

          Canonical is the laughing stock of the Open Source world now.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
            Canonical is the laughing stock of the Open Source world now.
            It shouldn't really surprise me when Larabel's vitriol and narrow mindedness towards Ubuntu is reflected in these forums. I've lurked about here long enough to see it over and over.

            It's still dead depressing though.

            I guess Ubuntu will likely lose more users with moves like this, but lately, after reading these forums and comments like them, I wonder if that's actually a good thing. The more hate I see against Ubuntu, the less I'm tempted to start distro-hopping again. I sure as hell as don't love everything Canonical does, but they're the only ones I see trying to do better.

            Better than... this.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
              Canonical is the laughing stock of the Open Source world now.
              To be honest I already hope they'll soon fork kernel (for the sake of completeness) close the sources of their own code and leave FLOSS and Linux be.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                Until it forces mir on everybody and everybody will use it.
                You mean like everyone uses Unity today? /facepalm

                Originally posted by scaine View Post
                trying to do better.
                Yeah, for example by adding spyware/adware to their own half-baked DE.
                Last edited by prodigy_; 03-05-2013, 02:56 PM.

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                • #9
                  well to be honest there is no technical reason to outcast wayland for mir, in fact im pretty sure wayland fullfil all their requirements and future plans too way more efficiently, so i suspect is a license issue[more than NIH] because they want nvidia/AMD/SOC blobs in their wagon fast, so mir is the faster way[if they ever deliver at all] to develop a server around blobs and not fully native drivers[wayland way].

                  about their input reason it sounds like bollocks to me, first is a very bad design idea to include input handling inside the main protocol since is way more efficient to pass the required action to the server/protocol and process the input handling outside, for example imagine this cases:
                  1. mouse/keyboard
                  2. touch/gestures
                  3. voice/camera
                  4. 3D input
                  5. future brainwave matrix tech

                  R1. in case 1 probably either solution is efficient enough since the information comming from any of those devices is quite simplistic but it can be way more interesting if they are processed separately and only send the server what action it should perform, so you dont have to rewrite half wayland/mir core code base to support 1080DPI 10 button uber mouse for mutants with 6 fingers

                  R2-5. same case, a hypothetical libgesture[and infrastructure] should handle/compare/process what your fingers are doing[touch movement/gesture/multitouch] and the client app should send a request to the server for X operation once libgesture send a positive match on a set of action the app preset to watch[two finger in a line rect if so tell server to show texture A otherwise hide it], now would you really want gesture processing inside the protocol/server definition? what happens if samsung release 6 months later a 10 finger touch screen instead of 5?. Now imagine this mess with something as massive a video processing for gestures in your carl heiss 40 MPixels tablet camera or you phone CPU locking trying to reduce background noise while you tell it to open a browser in rush hour, let me help you!! pure explicit pain.

                  so being wayland or any other system input should be handled and processed by specific subsystem that specialize in solving this events efficiently and pass to the protocol/server only what it needs to know and this that sense wayland seems the right solution[open to corrections if am wrong] beside i seriously doubt there is anything more efficient at power consumption/performance than wayland

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by F i L View Post
                    What matters is that somehow you folks find common ground and work together openly.
                    Note that Canonical's Contributor License Agreement strongly discourages code collaboration. Requiring copyright assignment is pretty rare, and even rarer still when the assignee can take the code proprietary. It also discourages working together since it puts everyone not the assignee on a considerably lower footing.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                      Until it forces mir on everybody and everybody will use it. They have push, wayland doesn't. Most users don't care so most users will use mir since canonical says so. Wayland will be dead on arrival for the simple fact that Ubuntu is the most popular and Canonical will choose mir over wayland.
                      That's really not true. Red Hat is the 5,000 pound gorilla in the room when it comes to Linux, especially when it comes to the commercial deployments where all the money is. They've got way more sway with hardware manufacturers, etc. than Ubuntu does.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                        That's really not true. Red Hat is the 5,000 pound gorilla in the room when it comes to Linux, especially when it comes to the commercial deployments where all the money is. They've got way more sway with hardware manufacturers, etc. than Ubuntu does.
                        That might be true for servers, could even be argued for desktops. Definitely not the case for phones and tablets though. I suspect that Shuttleworth's vision here is that phones will /be/ your PC inside of 5 years and this move, he hopes, puts Ubuntu in the driving seat as that transition takes place.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by scaine View Post
                          That might be true for servers, could even be argued for desktops. Definitely not the case for phones and tablets though. I suspect that Shuttleworth's vision here is that phones will /be/ your PC inside of 5 years and this move, he hopes, puts Ubuntu in the driving seat as that transition takes place.
                          Google/Android is that on phones and tablets.

                          I understand that Ubuntu is trying to get into that market, but they are the tiny upstart right now. Not dictating terms to the competition.

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                          • #14
                            The number one reason for Mir

                            Their technical reasoning is falling apart and they are taking a huge project with an inexperienced team. I don't think it's NIH syndrome, everything is pointing to copyright.

                            They want complete ownership of the copyright for the DS.
                            Maybe to have leverage with HW vendors or dealing with proprietary sw.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                              Google/Android is that on phones and tablets.

                              I understand that Ubuntu is trying to get into that market, but they are the tiny upstart right now. Not dictating terms to the competition.
                              No, I wasn't clear. I wasn't talking about Android, or mobile /as it is now/. I'm talking about in 5 years time when you'll only own a mobile and it will /be/ your PC. I'm guessing, but given their Ubuntu-For-Android project, I think that when this transition takes place, Ubuntu will be the only vendor with an offering that's sensible, and consistent.

                              It's a big if, but if it does happen, they'll make everyone else look clunky.

                              Google might still surprise here too, but I've used ChromeOS and it's hugely underwhelming.

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