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Canonical Announces Mir Back-End For Mainline Mesa

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  • Canonical Announces Mir Back-End For Mainline Mesa

    Phoronix: Canonical Announces Mir Back-End For Mainline Mesa

    A day after announcing the Mir display server as their custom replacement for X.Org/Wayland within the Ubuntu world, Canonical is now pushing for the Mesa back-end that was developed behind closed doors over the past half-year to be integrated into mainline Mesa...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTMxODM

  • #2
    Is this general EGL things that can be used by other stuff too?

    Or is this Mir-specific stuff that can only be used by Mir?

    I think Canonical should just drop Mir and use Wayland instead, or try to re-use as much as code as possible instead of NIH.

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    • #3
      If Canonical continue to make such radical movements will likely to blow up entier linux ecosystem, shrouded into big chunks.

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      • #4
        Great..

        I really hate seeing such segmentation in the ecosystem.
        X11 is old and crusty... Wayland was a solution to that. Throwing another display manager in the mix I think is bad long term (unless Mir is so awesome that everyone focuses on it vs wayland)

        Given Ubuntu's track record as of late... my money is on Wayland.

        Plus.. Who knows if native Mir stuff is going to be compatible with X11 and wayland... Stuff like steam for Ubuntu may not run on anything but Ubuntu in the future

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        • #5
          So, correct me if I'm wrong, now the Mesa devs have to sift through 8 months worth of work because Canonical did this behind closed doors and now decide to dump the lot into Mesa? What are the chances they're going to be told to go fsck themselves?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by phoronix View Post
            Phoronix: Canonical Announces Mir Back-End For Mainline Mesa

            A day after announcing the Mir display server as their custom replacement for X.Org/Wayland within the Ubuntu world, Canonical is now pushing for the Mesa back-end that was developed behind closed doors over the past half-year to be integrated into mainline Mesa...

            http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTMxODM
            Canonical is very good at marketing. They are timing their press releases so people keep talking about this new and exciting display server which is vapourware at this moment. There is a buzz as if something important were happening, and so far it isn't

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            • #7
              Oh goodie. Now every time some program gets updated and the news gets posted here, there will be not only people asking whether it works on Wayland, but also people asking whether it works on Mir, too. Fun times.

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              • #8
                I hope Mesa developers will just REFUSE to merge all Mir-related patches.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by LEW21 View Post
                  I hope Mesa developers will just REFUSE to merge all Mir-related patches.
                  Hopefully Qt and GTK will also refuse to mainline the changes.
                  The sooner Mir dies, the less damage it will cause.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by talvik View Post
                    Hopefully Qt and GTK will also refuse to mainline the changes.
                    The sooner Mir dies, the less damage it will cause.
                    This is best picture of so-called "FOSS Community". Hate, jealous, hypocrisy and IBC (Invented By Canonical) syndrome. If Mir will be successful, then it is only GOOD for everyone. If not - it will fail, so who cares? Go on Canonical, show what you can do and don't look at jealous and hating guys just because you do not want to use their code. Ubuntu is your distro and if Wayland does not fulfill your expectations and forces compromises just don't use it.
                    Last edited by Siekacz; 03-05-2013, 01:29 PM.

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                    • #11
                      It's not about a Hate or Love game, it's upper layer implications with multiple API/ABI to maintain for drivers and user aplications and tools.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Siekacz View Post
                        This is best picture of so-called "FOSS Community". Hate, jealous, hypocrisy and IBC (Invented By Canonical) syndrome. If Mir will be successful, then it is only GOOD for everyone.
                        The two main problems with Mir:

                        1) It is reduplication of work, since it sets out to do exactly the same thing as Wayland. Supporting the Wayland process would have been better.
                        2) It is completely and totally owned and controlled by one company. Wayland and X as developed by many companies, and none of them has complete control.

                        So even if Mir turns out to be technically much better, these two arguments will still stand. Canonical's track record on other projects is a cause for some skepticism, but we'll have to wait and see.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                          The two main problems with Mir:

                          1) It is reduplication of work, since it sets out to do exactly the same thing as Wayland. Supporting the Wayland process would have been better.
                          2) It is completely and totally owned and controlled by one company. Wayland and X as developed by many companies, and none of them has complete control.

                          So even if Mir turns out to be technically much better, these two arguments will still stand. Canonical's track record on other projects is a cause for some skepticism, but we'll have to wait and see.
                          For me, if Canonical makes Mir better supported by drivers and gives better overall quality, these two arguments are insignificant. They've always done patching and used someone else's code. And it doesn't work. Why? Because they just couldn't make something that is consistent with design. They had to patch and apply workarounds, which stop working when someone from upstream decides to change something significant. With Wayland it could be again the same problem.
                          Last edited by Siekacz; 03-05-2013, 02:03 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Siekacz View Post
                            They've always done patching and used someone else's code. And it doesn't work. Why? Because they just couldn't make something that is consistent with design. They had to patch and apply workarounds, which stop working when someone from upstream decides to change something significant. With Wayland it could be again the same problem.
                            That's certainly an ... interesting ... interpretation of events.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                              The two main problems with Mir:

                              1) It is reduplication of work, since it sets out to do exactly the same thing as Wayland. Supporting the Wayland process would have been better.
                              2) It is completely and totally owned and controlled by one company. Wayland and X as developed by many companies, and none of them has complete control.
                              3) Canonical played seriously foul by dropping many false statements about Wayland on the project page (those have been removed lately, AFAIK). No trivial offense, if you ask me.
                              4) They used exactly these statements to justify the decision not to use Wayland and go for a new display manager instead (which they developed in a private repository since mid 2012).
                              5) At the same time, they never approached the Wayland/X.org devs to discuss these "potential" issues, although Wayland has been said to be the DS of choice before.

                              As Kristian said in the IRC channel http://pastebin.com/KjRm3be1

                              00:02 <krh> RAOF: or just do that, but don't go out and tell the whole world how wayland is broken and has all X's input problems
                              00:02 <krh> that's what pisses me off
                              00:02 <krh> you can do whatever you want and you don't need my permission
                              00:02 <krh> but don't piss on wayland in the process
                              As for 3) :

                              00:06 <krh> I'll have fun explaining how that's not the case to everybody for the next few months
                              Although they took it back on the project page, it's all over in the wild now.
                              For instance, take this tabloid page:
                              http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/03..._announcement/

                              It goes on to explain that while Canonical had been investigating Wayland as a possible replacement for X in future versions of Ubuntu,
                              it found that the Wayland protocol "suffers from multiple problems," not least of which was mimicking too much of X.
                              Seems like there is a bunch of irresponsible people at Canonical.

                              Those are the issue with Mir (and Canonical)!
                              Last edited by entropy; 03-05-2013, 03:20 PM.

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