Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A Note To Canonical: "Don't Piss On Wayland"

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by shmerl View Post
    Totally on the contrary. Mir has nothing to offer over Wayland, it's Canonical's pet project. Wayland is developed by many parties. Ideally they should share drivers to avoid mess. So potentially Nvidia doesn't need to develop different drivers - they can develop one for both, of course unless Canonical screws things up with creating an incompatible architecture (like Android did with SurfaceFlinger).

    If drivers fragmentation will happen - it will be horrible especially gaming wise. It'll hinder any positive developments which start to emerge now.
    Canonical offers Nvidia a transition without the need for multiple driver versions. Ubuntu also has a large user base which means sales, including Tegra based device sales.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
      Does anyone honestly think Canonical wants to build another Display Server protocol? If Wayland could cut the mustard they would have adopted it. It obviously doesn't, nor has it made it to the 'Users'.
      Well, obviously they do want to build another server, because regardless of the merits of Wayland, the Canonical Mir developers have basically confessed that they don't know what they're talking about when it comes to their criticisms. It doesn't make any sense, but them's the facts.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
        Nvidia did say they were not going to support Wayland.
        They did not say that they would not support wayland. They said they had no plans to support it two years ago. Not supporting and no plans are two very different things.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by boast View Post
          So would people support Mir if it was not Canonical the one that was developing it?
          No, because this business of retracted criticisms of Wayland gives me no faith in the competence of the Mir developers. They claim to have started their own project due to a bunch of fundamental flaws in Wayland, and in response to arguments against them, now admit they don't know all that much about the bits of Wayland they're criticising. And we're supposed to take these people seriously?

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
            Canonical offers Nvidia a transition without the need for multiple driver versions. Ubuntu also has a large user base which means sales, including Tegra based device sales.
            Nvidia's primary Linux markets are Android and graphics workstations. Android isn't Ubuntu at all, and high-end computing is not Ubuntu's main focus (didn't they even end up removing gimp, or did they turn back on their plans?). Pretty much nothing else matters to Nvidia, they've said as much.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by boast View Post
              So would people support Mir if it was not Canonical the one that was developing it? It seems more like an Ubuntu hate, than a open welcome to linux to have choice and options
              It has nothing to do with Canonical heading development. It's the style of development which, sadly, is rather typical for Canonical:
              * Developed behind closed doors.
              * Developed without even attempting communication with Wayland.
              * Spreading lies about the competition (Wayland in this case)
              * (L)GPLv3-only license
              * CLA mandatory for outside contributors to allow Canonical and only Canonical to produce proprietary versions.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Drago View Post
                It is bad, because it is not a collaboration but competition. It increases pressure on toolkits, on drivers, on developers, and in quality of service in the end. I hope mir dies.
                there are many arguments that could come into my mind against mir. but THAT above is... well it is not an argument against.

                since when is competition bad? it is exactly what many project actually lack! especially display server for linux. i can't image a more absurd and false argument than that one i quoted.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                  Canonical has made Linux what it is today, a verging world success. Everything they do is professional, user friendly, zippy, big strides and or innovative, and now they are hitting the broad device market. In two years Ubuntu will be capable of being on every device, whilst other distros will be playing catchup or acting like it's all sweet in the command line world. The plain fact is some people like their computers on flames, just to repair them or to thinker. Ubuntu on the other hand wants to bring functionality and style to Linux. I'm happy for all flavours of Linux to exist, but Canonical's Ubuntu is leading the pack.
                  I would disagree. Their 10.04 release was awesome. The peak of Canonical's success. At that point Mark Shuttleworth got a little bit too cocky and it's been a sad and rapid downhill slide since then. When the phone and tablets fail and Mark runs out of money - hopefully all these wasteful (in terms of developer time) side-projects and forks will die quietly along with Canonical...

                  Used to love what Canonical were doing - but now I think Mark Shuttleworth is living in an alternate reality. Reading what they are doing with "Mir" is so depressing...

                  Ah well...

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by finalzone View Post
                    Obbious reason, Mark Shuttleworth celebrity status. Ubuntu by itself is nothing more than Debian folk. Since its inceptions,developers and users were so easily
                    tricked into marketing they did not the see Canonical real purpose, control.
                    OK, so I simply couldn't resist:


                    "Shepard, control is the key to survival."

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by alexThunder View Post
                      Which distro got, by far, the most users? Which distro is actually getting the people from other OSs mostly? Which distro do proprietary applications target first?
                      Android.
                      Desktop Linux's installed base is pretty much stagnant since 10 or so years.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                        Canonical offers Nvidia a transition without the need for multiple driver versions. Ubuntu also has a large user base which means sales, including Tegra based device sales.
                        Ubuntu alone is not a significant user base, if it alienates the rest of the Linux users (who will be using Wayland). With the current move they'll probably start losing users. In general, in order for Linux gaming efforts to gain traction, there should be unified driver base. If that won't happen - Canonical would achieve a real sabotage for the whole industry.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Drago View Post
                          I hope mir dies.
                          I hope mir dies in mir. (mir = peace)

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by bobwya View Post
                            I would disagree. Their 10.04 release was awesome. The peak of Canonical's success. At that point Mark Shuttleworth got a little bit too cocky and it's been a sad and rapid downhill slide since then. When the phone and tablets fail and Mark runs out of money - hopefully all these wasteful (in terms of developer time) side-projects and forks will die quietly along with Canonical...
                            Agreed - I was very happy with their earlier versions, particularly with the netbook editions that tweaked the UI for smaller screens. Unfortunately, it's been a steady decline for the past couple of years, resulting in me moving back to Fedora in 2011...

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                              Canonical is a corporation. They want control. So they choose to develop in house. What is the problem? We will have both wayland and mir. Probably mir will win since it's gonna be preinstalled. It's competition. Why are you so against it? There will be no fragmentation. Corporations will choose mir because it's backed by a corporation and wayland will become like slackware. A few will say how great and superior to everything it is but nobody uses it. Why do you get attached so much to wayland? Just because everybody talked more about it? It's not like you were actually using it and now you will miss it.
                              Why can't they compete by adopting Wayland and creating features for it, implement their own Ubuntu compositor instead of Weston along with new features? If every corporation that pumped propane invented their own gasket for the propane tanks we use instead of agreeing on a -standard- for gaskets, then I'd have to go to one place only instead of a dozen in a radius of 5 miles to refill my propane tank... Your point, while valid, has its trade-offs which you omitted to mention.

                              Do you work for Canonical by any chance?

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                                Canonical is a corporation. They want control. So they choose to develop in house. What is the problem? We will have both wayland and mir. Probably mir will win since it's gonna be preinstalled. It's competition. Why are you so against it? There will be no fragmentation. Corporations will choose mir because it's backed by a corporation and wayland will become like slackware. A few will say how great and superior to everything it is but nobody uses it. Why do you get attached so much to wayland? Just because everybody talked more about it? It's not like you were actually using it and now you will miss it.
                                I doubt mir will win, since IMO it is pretty much impossible for 5 or so developers with no prior experience in that field to write something that actually works...
                                Also Wayland is backed by Intel which is about 1000 times bigger than Canonical and actually makes a profit

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X