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A Note To Canonical: "Don't Piss On Wayland"

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  • #46
    Canonical is the AntiChrist!!!! Microsoft is the devil himself!!

    Sadly what started as a good opportunity to bring GNU/Linux to the world has been becoming harmful. First systemd, now the next window system =/.

    I only hope that developers don't get easy fooled by shiny rocks instead of unpolished diamonds.

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    • #47
      As someone that uses Ubuntu I'm a bit puzzled by the sequence of events and certainly at the optics of this. At a minimum, it would appear that they've done a pretty shoddy job with the PR component of this. I would argue their seemingly inaccurate descriptions of Wayland is the single biggest problem with all of this.

      My guess is that the motivation for rolling their own was fueled for their desire to have control over the codebase for what they probably consider a pretty important piece of the puzzle for their desire to put Ubuntu on the mobile and home TV devices. There may be something mobile manufacturers and/or carriers require that makes this desirable. Didn't Google write their own too for Android? Granted, theirs was before Wayland.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by scionicspectre View Post
        Whilst this may be the most important time to support Canonical, it may also be the most important time to boycott them. Unfortunately, if the community comes together to decry Canonical's dubious technical and ethical decisions, the software industry at large may take it as another sign of our immaturity and inability to work together in a unified way. In fact, Canonical seems the be the only person who has a problem with this, but we get the blame for being too dogmatic.

        It's utter B.S., and I can't wait until we get past this idiocy.
        Me too, but I'm afraid we won't get past this so soon, if ever. No matter what Canonical is doing, it's wrong. As far as I can remeber, patches done by Canonical aren't seen too gladly. I don't wonder, why they develop so much behind closed doors then.

        However, without them, Linux would still be completely irrelevant to the end-user market. What's a great tech worth, if you can't bring it to the people? Remember all the hate about Unity? It's still hated, but seems to be the only UI (incl. Metro and the Mac-Stuff) which you can throw at completely new users without explaining tons of things (I'm talking about my experience - I migrated several people to Ubuntu - from family members to professorts at the university (not cs ones) and everyone was happy).

        On the other hand, there is Android which is pretty much the king of fragmentation but surprisingly gets waaaaaaaaay less shit for that.

        I guess, again, all this hate is not against Mir but really against Canonical. There are tons of comments about that and most of them are from people who are no experts for display servers (I'm not either) and only post tons of hot air. As a result, there is barely any useful criticism but a lot of nonsense.

        My guess is that Canonical will just continue with what they're up to and leave the oldschool-linux-hating-community behind, right there where they're used to be - irrelevant and hating :P

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        • #49
          Originally posted by akincer View Post
          As someone that uses Ubuntu I'm a bit puzzled by the sequence of events and certainly at the optics of this. At a minimum, it would appear that they've done a pretty shoddy job with the PR component of this. I would argue their seemingly inaccurate descriptions of Wayland is the single biggest problem with all of this.

          My guess is that the motivation for rolling their own was fueled for their desire to have control over the codebase for what they probably consider a pretty important piece of the puzzle for their desire to put Ubuntu on the mobile and home TV devices. There may be something mobile manufacturers and/or carriers require that makes this desirable. Didn't Google write their own too for Android? Granted, theirs was before Wayland.
          The display on Android is SurfaceFlinger, Other than Ubuntu for phones/tablets or whatever the hell their aiming for I don't think any other Linux based OS uses it. I maybe wrong but it's GL based and these days isn't too shabby.

          Originally posted by alexThunder View Post
          Me too, but I'm afraid we won't get past this so soon, if ever. No matter what Canonical is doing, it's wrong. As far as I can remeber, patches done by Canonical aren't seen too gladly. I don't wonder, why they develop so much behind closed doors then.

          However, without them, Linux would still be completely irrelevant to the end-user market. What's a great tech worth, if you can't bring it to the people? Remember all the hate about Unity? It's still hated, but seems to be the only UI (incl. Metro and the Mac-Stuff) which you can throw at completely new users without explaining tons of things (I'm talking about my experience - I migrated several people to Ubuntu - from family members to professorts at the university (not cs ones) and everyone was happy).

          On the other hand, there is Android which is pretty much the king of fragmentation but surprisingly gets waaaaaaaaay less shit for that.

          I guess, again, all this hate is not against Mir but really against Canonical. There are tons of comments about that and most of them are from people who are no experts for display servers (I'm not either) and only post tons of hot air. As a result, there is barely any useful criticism but a lot of nonsense.

          My guess is that Canonical will just continue with what they're up to and leave the oldschool-linux-hating-community behind, right there where they're used to be - irrelevant and hating :P
          Android does what it does. It's sad that the Linux world doesn't really get much from the success of Android but it is what it is. Ubuntu is trying to be Android now. The problem is they're messing with the Linux eco-system along the way.
          Last edited by nightmarex; 03-05-2013, 12:30 PM.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by alexThunder View Post
            patches done by Canonical aren't seen too gladly.
            Because those patches are trivial.
            However, without them, Linux would still be completely irrelevant to the end-user market.
            YEAH RIGHT
            Remember all the hate about Unity? It's still hated, but seems to be the only UI (incl. Metro and the Mac-Stuff) which you can throw at completely new users without explaining tons of things (I'm talking about my experience - I migrated several people to Ubuntu - from family members to professorts at the university (not cs ones) and everyone was happy).
            If u are retard then yes, every other DE/WM whatever will be hard for u to understand. Those so called new users don't even understand what's the difference between windows and ubuntu(i don;t say linux coz those tards don;t even know what is linux). They see all those fancy window animations and they say"HEY THATS UBAH KEWL, UBUNTU RULEZ WINDOWS SUCKS". Most of their problems are " I pressed something now there is this <insert random stupid bs> problem.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by phoen1x View Post
              If u are retard then yes, every other DE/WM whatever will be hard for u to understand. Those so called new users don't even understand what's the difference between windows and ubuntu(i don;t say linux coz those tards don;t even know what is linux). They see all those fancy window animations and they say"HEY THATS UBAH KEWL, UBUNTU RULEZ WINDOWS SUCKS". Most of their problems are " I pressed something now there is this <insert random stupid bs> problem.
              IDK maybe I'm just old but I always though a panel with a application launch button (perhaps a clock in corner) is easier for most new users to understand then a bunch of wierd buttons and menus ui. Kind of why Metro caught flack wasn't it?

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              • #52
                Originally posted by nightmarex View Post
                IDK maybe I'm just old but I always though a panel with a application launch button (perhaps a clock in corner) is easier for most new users to understand then a bunch of wierd buttons and menus ui. Kind of why Metro caught flack wasn't it?
                What's hard to understand. It's simple, either u like it or don't, that's it. As i said if u are retard then yes something is hard... It's just personal preferences.

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                • #53
                  Iím sure Canonical will still make Wayland available. It is possible to do a minimal Ubuntu installation, and then choose the programs you want, instead of going with the programs that are included in the typical installation. Iíve done that before, since I prefer LXDE to Unity, VLC to Totem, etc. If they decide to not offer Wayland, I might have to consider going back to Arch. What keeps me coming back to Ubuntu is their package management.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by 123_qwe View Post
                    Technically Wayland is probably better, however that alone does not grant it success. Ubuntu is probably the only commercially viable implementation of Linux on the destkop. When was the last time that <insert favourite distro> appeared on BBC, CNN, etc?
                    In the long run they will probably do with Mir and they did with Compiz( support it, launch it, and in the end revert to QT) and support Wayland. If NVIDIA launches drivers for Mir won't that benefit Wayland too (EGL). I can see the reasoning for Mir.
                    Obbious reason, Mark Shuttleworth celebrity status. Ubuntu by itself is nothing more than Debian folk. Since its inceptions,developers and users were so easily
                    tricked into marketing they did not the see Canonical real purpose, control. I personally despite Canonical perversion of Ubuntu name and their brag of inventing elements where they did barely contribute to the FOSS community.
                    Canonical still has not made a single profit in consumer desktop despite popularity and it shows there are bad financial decision on their hand. In business point of view,Ubuntu is a laughing stock. Meanwhile, watching Canonical doing its own downfall.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by phoen1x View Post
                      Because those patches are trivial.
                      Besides the questions, if this applies to all of their patches, is triviality a reason to reject?

                      YEAH RIGHT
                      Which distro got, by far, the most users? Which distro is actually getting the people from other OSs mostly? Which distro do proprietary applications target first?

                      Or, more easier, where would we have been without Ubuntu? Oh yeah, Gnome Shell would have surely attracted a lot of new users

                      If u are retard then yes, every other DE/WM whatever will be hard for u to understand. Those so called new users don't even understand what's the difference between windows and ubuntu(i don;t say linux coz those tards don;t even know what is linux). They see all those fancy window animations and they say"HEY THATS UBAH KEWL, UBUNTU RULEZ WINDOWS SUCKS". Most of their problems are " I pressed something now there is this <insert random stupid bs> problem.
                      Then you have to assume, that most people are retarded. Still, that doesn't help if other companies like Microsoft and Apple catch them and get so many users, that they can close up everything towards the outside world. Guess who's then left behind (we're just slowly getting out of this mess, thanks to whom again?).

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by phoen1x View Post
                        There should be some GPL changes to disallow faggots from canonical use damn code for free. PERIOD.
                        No, there shouldn't. That's not what the GPL is for, if you think so you don't understand free software.

                        Mir will probably fail on it's own, but it will do damage to the ecosystem before it's done.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                          Nvidia did say they were not going to support Wayland. If support comes then Wayland has a chance, else it's a struggling project.

                          Mir on the other hand will be too tempting for Nvidia to push aside.
                          Totally on the contrary. Mir has nothing to offer over Wayland, it's Canonical's pet project. Wayland is developed by many parties. Ideally they should share drivers to avoid mess. So potentially Nvidia doesn't need to develop different drivers - they can develop one for both, of course unless Canonical screws things up with creating an incompatible architecture (like Android did with SurfaceFlinger).

                          If drivers fragmentation will happen - it will be horrible especially gaming wise. It'll hinder any positive developments which start to emerge now.
                          Last edited by shmerl; 03-05-2013, 02:07 PM.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by scionicspectre View Post
                            Whilst this may be the most important time to support Canonical, it may also be the most important time to boycott them. Unfortunately, if the community comes together to decry Canonical's dubious technical and ethical decisions, the software industry at large may take it as another sign of our immaturity and inability to work together in a unified way. In fact, Canonical seems the be the only person who has a problem with this, but we get the blame for being too dogmatic.

                            It's utter B.S., and I can't wait until we get past this idiocy.
                            Unfortunately true, but what you can do?

                            And phoen1x, even when I agree with you I do not want to be seen in the same room with you. Try calming down and being a bit more eloquent with your posts.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by alexThunder View Post
                              Besides the questions, if this applies to all of their patches, is triviality a reason to reject?
                              YES.

                              Which distro got, by far, the most users? Which distro is actually getting the people from other OSs mostly? Which distro do proprietary applications target first?
                              Who cares? More users using it means it's better distro even though it's same debian?

                              Or, more easier, where would we have been without Ubuntu? Oh yeah, Gnome Shell would have surely attracted a lot of new users
                              Rise of linux came with compiz and tha came from opensuse, too bad for u, canonical wasn't even intrested in linux back then. There is KDE and others(i won't mention xfce because it's not on par with gnome or even with kde)


                              Then you have to assume, that most people are retarded. Still, that doesn't help if other companies like Microsoft and Apple catch them and get so many users, that they can close up everything towards the outside world. Guess who's then left behind (we're just slowly getting out of this mess, thanks to whom again?).
                              They are. Read buntu forums. HI I SAW VIDEO EFFECTS ON JEWTUBE NOW I HAZ INSTALLED TEH UBUNTU, SHIT IS WEIRD MAH EXE FILES AIN'T WORKIN. Windows is the best operating system ever, without windows there would be nothing to copy for linux geeks to make linux usable. But u are yet another linux newbie who thinks linux rules and windows/osx/ios whatever sucks... Too bad.
                              Originally posted by Hamish Wilson
                              And phoen1x, even when I agree with you I do not want to be seen in the same room with you. Try calming down and being a bit more eloquent with your posts.
                              I hear sirens, is that care police?!

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                              • #60
                                phoen1x, dude, you need to step away from the keyboard.

                                I have been considering for the last couple of days what would be a reasonable, constructive and mature contribution to this whole saga. And I think I've got it!

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