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A Note To Canonical: "Don't Piss On Wayland"

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  • Originally posted by liam View Post
    I'm not a canonical fan, so I don't know why you'd bring up shuttleworth. My only point was that mccann, the principal behind the design doc and continued driver of the G3 vision, isn't a trained designer.
    Because the claim is that Shuttleworth's vision was going to make a better product than Gnome Shell because he is firmly in control. Gnome3 was brought up as an example of a community product that failed because it had no one in charge, and yet they clearly had Mccann.

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    • no the problem with gnome 3 is that programmers are not professional UI designers. therefore projects run by linux tinkerers usually have crappy UIs. it's quite telling that gnome was 6 years behind osx in getting integrated desktop search.

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      • Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
        Because the claim is that Shuttleworth's vision was going to make a better product than Gnome Shell because he is firmly in control. Gnome3 was brought up as an example of a community product that failed because it had no one in charge, and yet they clearly had Mccann.
        Ah, CONTEXT
        Yeah, I was looking at it in isolation and simply wanted to clear that one point.
        What Gnome needs/ed are UX people along with a leader like De Icaza (someone who could get consensus, that is).

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        • I've seen game designers call play testers "stupid" because they couldn't figure out some "what have I got in my pocket" kind of puzzle in a game level; good designers when someone is around with the authority to apply a firm hand, but act infallible when calling the shots, and then act surprised when their game does poorly. Recent trends in the Linux desktop remind me of those situations.

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          • Originally posted by Togga View Post
            I do not follow this logic. Is this statement using the "community definition" of the word moronic? Reference please.
            And now strawman arguments on a completely different topic...
            Making this assurance you must be the head of "the community".
            Amazing conclusion. Are you looking for job?
            Strawman argument= an answer to your accusation about the "mafia of foss"?

            Stating the obvious, that community projects and developers do not make any move against Canonical other than expressing their dislike, needs to be made by a "head of the community"?

            Be thankful i am not looking for a job, for if i did you would have already lost yours...

            What a joke...

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            • Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
              Strawman argument= an answer to your accusation about the "mafia of foss"?

              Stating the obvious, that community projects and developers do not make any move against Canonical other than expressing their dislike, needs to be made by a "head of the community"?

              Be thankful i am not looking for a job, for if i did you would have already lost yours...

              What a joke...
              Stating that "isn't going to make any move against Mir" is a promise that can only be made if you're in control.

              Nice bullying and harassment, constantly proving my point. I'm a developer myself and i'm very happy not to be part in your "community". Avoiding Wayland seems like a good start to avoid bullys. Technical issues can always be solved in products, but this "community" you represent is just insane.

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              • Originally posted by Togga View Post
                Nice bullying and harassment, constantly proving my point. I'm a developer myself and i'm very happy not to be part in your "community". Avoiding Wayland seems like a good start to avoid bullys. Technical issues can always be solved in products, but this "community" you represent is just insane.
                I am sure the feeling is mutual. Generally speaking, comparing one side of a disagreement to an extremely violent organized crime syndicate is not a great way to start a friendly discussion.

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                • Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                  I am sure the feeling is mutual. Generally speaking, comparing one side of a disagreement to an extremely violent organized crime syndicate is not a great way to start a friendly discussion.
                  My Mafia statement was a analogy, interpreting comments like this:
                  Originally posted by Drago View Post
                  I really hope, that everybody(except canonical), will boycott this "mir" shit thing.
                  Michael you have contacts with Valve, can you ask them what they think about it.
                  Originally posted by newwen View Post
                  Canonical has fucked it up this time. They're losing all the trust they still had from the FLOSS community.
                  ... as if the community were an organisation that should punish Canonical for lacking trust.

                  I have never questioned peoples right to speak or insulted anyone in person. The response I got was directly in the line (or worse) with the above comments trying to connect me with faschism, always with a bullying touch with wording like "moronic" and "a joke".

                  In my opinion not very nice climate of discussion and not really a place where you want to put any creative efforts.

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                  • Originally posted by Togga View Post
                    My Mafia statement was a analogy, interpreting comments like this:
                    So asking people to boycott is the same as being an extremely violent organized crime syndicate? You are not helping your case.

                    Originally posted by Togga View Post
                    The response I got was directly in the line (or worse) with the above comments trying to connect me with faschism, always with a bullying touch with wording like "moronic" and "a joke".
                    In response to your equating peaceful disagreement with a violent organized crime syndicate, and the resulting implication that your view of "freedom" does not include freedom of speech.

                    Originally posted by Togga View Post
                    In my opinion not very nice climate of discussion and not really a place where you want to put any creative efforts.
                    Again, a climate solely and completely created by you with your opening remarks.

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                    • Originally posted by Togga View Post
                      In my opinion not very nice climate of discussion and not really a place where you want to put any creative efforts.
                      And Canonical's is? The one where they are closing down the development and are ceasing to accept community patches or contributions? Doing everything behind closed doors in some kind of skunkworks team?

                      What Canonical did was stab the community in the back. They also made a very dumb move. They ignore standards that everyone else has agreed upon just for the sake of being different, they want to make it so that software written for Ubuntu will not be compatible with other distros. They're seeking a competitive advantage with questionable means. They don't play nice with the ecosystem, they take advantage of other's work but don't give anything back. It's no wonder that so many people are pissed at Canonical for their behaviour. We all expect things like this from Mapplesoft, but Linux people should know better.

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                      • Originally posted by dee. View Post
                        They don't play nice with the ecosystem, they take advantage of other's work but don't give anything back. It's no wonder that so many people are pissed at Canonical for their behaviour. We all expect things like this from Mapplesoft, but Linux people should know better.
                        Technically both Apple and Microsoft contribute much more code to the Linux ecosystem than Canonical does. Microsoft is a significant contributor to the Linux kernel, and Apple supports key software stacks like CUPS and Webkit, both of which are used extensively in Linux.

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                        • don't forget that apple was a significant contributor to gcc and now clang.
                          ps. this is off topic, but, does anyone know if osx is built using gcc or clang and when they made the switch?

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                          • Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                            Technically both Apple and Microsoft contribute much more code to the Linux ecosystem than Canonical does. Microsoft is a significant contributor to the Linux kernel, and Apple supports key software stacks like CUPS and Webkit, both of which are used extensively in Linux.
                            I wouldn't say significant - they contributed some more code when that hyper-v thing happened but nowdays very little. And Apple only contributes to Webkit only because it's used in Safari, and it's not a Linux component per se, only some browsers use it.

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                            • Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                              So asking people to boycott is the same as being an extremely violent organized crime syndicate? You are not helping your case.
                              I making myself perfectly clear, you are over-interpreting my post with something that were never intended (strawman). The obvious point you now disregard is, as I said, "... as if the community were an organisation that should punish Canonical for lacking trust.". Business areas and methods used may of course differ, but that obvious comparing Cosa Nostra with Wayland right?

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                              • Originally posted by TheBlackCat View Post
                                Again, a climate solely and completely created by you with your opening remarks.
                                No. This is just an non-intended mis-interpretation of what I wrote. Where the climate is created (except for the two very first comments) is obvious, just look for personal attacks...

                                Originally posted by Ancurio View Post
                                Please don't talk if you have absolutely no clue about the matter at hand. Thanks.
                                Originally posted by TemplarGR View Post
                                What a moronic comment....
                                Obviously I weren't "in line" with "the community" and should be treated as Canonical and other heretics open for all sorts of blunt harassment.

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