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The Developers Behind The Mir Display Server

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  • The Developers Behind The Mir Display Server

    Phoronix: The Developers Behind The Mir Display Server

    Given Canonical's lack of upstream involvement with the development of X.Org, DRM, and Mesa/Gallium3D over the years, it was interesting to see who at the company is actually on-staff to work on the just-announced Mir Display Server for future releases of Ubuntu...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTMxNzc

  • #2
    Seeing as these are developers who don't have years of experience working on the low-level Linux graphics stack from X.Org/DRM to Mesa/Gallium3D drivers or Wayland or even DirectFB, it will be interesting to see what they come up with for Mir...
    No, it will not be "interesting". Nothing against these developers, but even if they do make a great product (which is unlikely, at least in the time-frame given) it will still only serve to fragment Linux driver support right at the moment things where picking up momentum due to Valve's involvement. Unless Canonical is still hiding something (which is likely) and already has NVidia/AMD on board (or is very close to) this can only be bad for the community at large, both developers and users. That said, even if they ARE on board, I'm hearing bad things about this CLA license.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Phoronix
      Especially with a target to have it ready in an official Ubuntu desktop release in one year's time. It's taken X11 veterans years to get Wayland/Weston to the point where it is today and still isn't feature-complete.
      An important thing to consider when you think about what they've said in the past...

      Originally posted by Mark Shuttleworth; http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/551
      Im sure we could deliver *something* in six months, but I think a year is more realistic for the first images that will be widely useful in our community.
      He goes on to say...

      Originally posted by Mark Shuttleworth
      We considered and spoke with several proprietary options, on the basis that they might be persuaded to open source their work for a new push, and we evaluated the cost of building a new display manager, informed by the lessons learned in Wayland. We came to the conclusion that any such effort would only create a hard split in the world which wasnt worth the cost of having done it. There are issues with Wayland, but they seem to be solvable, wed rather be part of solving them than chasing a better alternative. So Wayland it is.
      This way back in November of 2010...well, so much for that. I imagine Mir started as part of that ponderance, and continued in the background to one day land on someone's desk. That person said, "eureka! why didn't we think of this before?" And by that time Wayland, which they were only half paying attention to, had time to mature.

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      • #4
        I cannot see how this will be successful without driver support from the big 3. Unless by chance they already have support from AMD, Intel and Nvidia. The madness coming from the Canonical camp just never ceases to amaze me.

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        • #5
          Could it be that Wayland is slow to come to fruition because it's playing compatibility games, where as Mir is a clean approach.

          On the face of it Mir seems to be the better project as it's geared to work with in a wide range of devices and systems. Having Android driver compatibility is a winner. While Microsoft is struggling to make it in the mobile market, spending billions on advertising, they have failed, yet Canonical's plans will work.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
            Could it be that Wayland is slow to come to fruition because it's playing compatibility games, where as Mir is a clean approach.

            On the face of it Mir seems to be the better project as it's geared to work with in a wide range of devices and systems. Having Android driver compatibility is a winner. While Microsoft is struggling to make it in the mobile market, spending billions on advertising, they have failed, yet Canonical's plans will work.
            Well, AFAIK Wayland doesn't really depend on KMS etc. Nothing stops it from running on/with android drivers, there is even the option of running it within X11.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
              Could it be that Wayland is slow to come to fruition because it's playing compatibility games
              Exactly the same ones as Mir (i.e. keep X clients running through a proxy, but not in the core protocol).

              Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
              where as Mir is a clean approach.
              In which areas, exactly? How do they differ?

              Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
              On the face of it Mir seems to be the better project as it's geared to work with in a wide range of devices and systems.
              Which devices and systems do you think Wayland is geared towards?

              Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
              Having Android driver compatibility is a winner.
              Wayland was running on Android last year.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by daniels View Post
                Exactly the same ones as Mir (i.e. keep X clients running through a proxy, but not in the core protocol).


                In which areas, exactly? How do they differ?


                Which devices and systems do you think Wayland is geared towards?


                Wayland was running on Android last year.
                This is Phoronix. Since when do facts and logic from actual developers mean shit here?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                  it's geared to work with in a wide range of devices and systems
                  Namely smartphones and tablets. Wide range, my ***.

                  Truth is, Canonical increasingly desperate about starting to make money one way or another. Ubuntu One > Ubuntu Store > Unity > Mir. They're Apple wannabes and if were up to them they'd turn the entire Linux into an iOS clone.

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                  • #10
                    "it will be interesting to see what they come up with for Mir."

                    No, it will not be interesting. It will be reinventing the wheel, even if it's "good" in the end, it will not solve anything that Wayland isn't already nailing squarely head on.

                    I hope Intel poaches all of the Mir developers ASAP and redirect their brilliance to Wayland/Intel's GPU efforts.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by daniels View Post
                      Wayland was running on Android last year.
                      It's not about running Mir or Wayland on Android, it's running in a chroot, and having the Android drivers work with the linux image embedded into the device.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                        It's not about running Mir or Wayland on Android, it's running in a chroot, and having the Android drivers work with the linux image embedded into the device.
                        I'm not sure why you think these are different things.

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                        • #13
                          I believe MIR was made for Ubuntu phones using android gfx drivers, and if Canonical also runs MIR on the desktop they gets a unified system for all Ubuntu systems.

                          But I do not think they will succeed on the desktop, but it is a big chance/risk they will on phones an tablets.

                          But that is only my opinion.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by e8hffff View Post
                            It's not about running Mir or Wayland on Android, it's running in a chroot, and having the Android drivers work with the linux image embedded into the device.
                            Hellooo? the Wayland on Android demo did exactly that: working with Android drivers.

                            "So far this has been just a proof of concept, that Weston can run on Android and proprietary drivers. "

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by XyC0 View Post
                              I believe MIR was made for Ubuntu phones using android gfx drivers, and if Canonical also runs MIR on the desktop they gets a unified system for all Ubuntu systems.

                              But I do not think they will succeed on the desktop, but it is a big chance/risk they will on phones an tablets.

                              But that is only my opinion.
                              Canonical could have ruled the desktop if it stuck it out with Wayland. Problem is, they can't come up with any way to make money. Wayland is a side-hobby, a moonlight job for someone like Intel - they make CPUs, and Wayland is like a marketing tool for them, more than anything else. Google makes money off advertising, Android is yet another give away marketing tool for them... What exactly does Canonical do to stay afloat? Support Ubuntu ,"OEM services", and the like - this can hardly pay the bill or make it break even, despite how deep pocketed Mark Shuttleworth is. He could fund it indefinitely with his own money if he has it - this does not make it a successful business.

                              It's very difficult to be 1) cool, and 2) make money off Linux - and those who figured out how to do both of these, aren't making money off Linux directly, but use it to advance some other product they're selling.

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