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The Developers Behind The Mir Display Server

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  • #16
    Originally posted by MartinN View Post
    It's very difficult to be 1) cool, and 2) make money off Linux - and those who figured out how to do both of these, aren't making money off Linux directly, but use it to advance some other product they're selling.
    Yeah the Red Hat crowd never made a time on Linux.

    You seem to have no idea how the real world works btw. Intel as a corporation doesn't give a shit about wayland, their marketing department probably doesn't even know it exists. They sell products that require a display server, they hired a guy who writes display servers, it really is that simple.

    The thing is if you are burning money to keep your company a float, burning even more to write software someone else is already writing for you doesn't seem very smart.

    Dave.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by airlied View Post
      Yeah the Red Hat crowd never made a time on Linux.

      You seem to have no idea how the real world works btw. Intel as a corporation doesn't give a shit about wayland, their marketing department probably doesn't even know it exists. They sell products that require a display server, they hired a guy who writes display servers, it really is that simple.

      The thing is if you are burning money to keep your company a float, burning even more to write software someone else is already writing for you doesn't seem very smart.

      Dave.
      I was agreeing with you. At the same time, Canonical is interested in becoming a profitable business so I pointed that out too. Thanks for the insult.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by MartinN View Post
        I was agreeing with you. At the same time, Canonical is interested in becoming a profitable business so I pointed that out too. Thanks for the insult.
        Its phoronix, free insult with every post.

        The thing is RH do make their money from Linux directly, yes they sell support, but it all comes from the investment the company has made in taking Linux to the point that they could sell support.

        Profit may not be their primary motivator, there's also the possibility that Canonical is interested in being bought out by someone, so trying to create things that are directly valuable to them not as a means to make profit but as a means to convince someone else it would be easier to buy the company than do it themselves.

        1. Create display server, phone, phablet stack, own it all.
        2. ????
        3. <company> buys Canonical, Mark goes back to space.

        To become profitable and self sustaining, they probably need to concentrate on doing one thing and doing it well, instead they same to be trying to make land grabs in as many pies as they can, hoping something sticks. I don't think I've entrusting my long term server support to a company that is trying to be bought out by a phone manufacturer.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by daniels View Post
          Wayland was running on Android last year.
          And that helps us how when it isn't any more? (link)
          Not that that's a good argument in itself, I know.

          OTOH, where is the stable driver ABI for Wayland? If it's the same one as X, how is that stable?
          http://www.google.com/search?q=xorg-video-abi
          And if you think that isn't a problem, that might be a good reason for Canonical to write a new display server in itself.
          Last edited by Ibidem; 03-06-2013, 09:04 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Ibidem View Post
            And that helps us how when it isn't any more? (link)
            Not that that's a good argument in itself, I know.

            OTOH, where is the stable driver ABI for Wayland? If it's the same one as X, how is that stable?
            http://www.google.com/search?q=xorg-video-abi
            And if you think that isn't a problem, that might be a good reason for Canonical to write a new display server in itself.
            There is no ABI for drivers in wayland/mir like drivers in X.org, the fact you think there is shows you don't know anything, and are just commenting from a void.

            The wayland driver model is based around EGL extensions, drivers provide the EGL extensions and they work with wayland. Wayland also uses KMS/GBM for modesetting and buffer management APIs, Mir can use KMS/GBM and haven't revealed their top secret internal alternative (jokes it doesn't exist yet).

            The thing is as modesetting APIs go, KMS is really the only viable current API for multi-output modesetting, if you don't want to use KMS you will have to create a new API + add an abstraction to KMS to supply the new API, then convince nvidia + AMD to implement something below your new abstraction. So why not get NVIDIA + AMD to implement the KMS API and save adding a pointless abstraction? This is the though process behind how wayland went, so far nothing has proven it wrong.

            Dave.

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            • #21
              Doesn't this also mean the display server gets 'less important' because it doesn't do that much any more, at least compared to X11?

              On one side it talks to established driver+kernel APIs, and on the other to toolkits like Qt for applications (very simplified, I guess). And as you say, Mir would probably do the same thing. So I'm still not conviced about all the fragmentation doomsday talk. One would probably be able to switch display servers like today we switch DEs?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Ibidem View Post
                And that helps us how when it isn't any more? (link)
                Not that that's a good argument in itself, I know.
                Yeah, it can easily be brought back if anyone's interested in running or maintaining it; it's right there in the history, it's not like it was magically unexisted or anything. But it turns out that not too many people start from the point of 'let's take AOSP and brutally bash in half of a GNU-based userland, except for the Bionic bits we need'. Forking AOSP to support that is also viciously painful, so it's a bit of a red herring really. One of those things that sounds appealing on paper, until you actually try to do it.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by not.sure View Post
                  Doesn't this also mean the display server gets 'less important' because it doesn't do that much any more, at least compared to X11?

                  On one side it talks to established driver+kernel APIs, and on the other to toolkits like Qt for applications (very simplified, I guess). And as you say, Mir would probably do the same thing. So I'm still not conviced about all the fragmentation doomsday talk. One would probably be able to switch display servers like today we switch DEs?
                  It seems it would need different driver API, and different toolkit implementations (effectively to do the same thing).

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Wow, X.Org folks are having a butthurt. Time to grab popcorn.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by HoboJ View Post
                      I cannot see how this will be successful without driver support from the big 3. Unless by chance they already have support from AMD, Intel and Nvidia. The madness coming from the Canonical camp just never ceases to amaze me.
                      Ubuntu Linux shares > all other versions of Linux.

                      Which one do you think the developers will flock too? Ubuntu drives Linux development, and Linux wouldn't be in the state its in if it weren't for Ubuntu bringing Linux to the consumer.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by gamerk2 View Post
                        Ubuntu Linux shares > all other versions of Linux.

                        Which one do you think the developers will flock too? Ubuntu drives Linux development, and Linux wouldn't be in the state its in if it weren't for Ubuntu bringing Linux to the consumer.
                        +1. Canonical alone is responsible for getting Valve on board. Gabe would rather promote Macs than talk to and bargain with a myriad of small Linux communities.

                        So yeah, screw "the ecosystem". Canonical is making a point here: Ubuntu is not a "distro", it is an independent operating system with its own homegrown solutions.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ворот93 View Post
                          +1. Canonical alone is responsible for getting Valve on board. Gabe would rather promote Macs than talk to and bargain with a myriad of small Linux communities.

                          So yeah, screw "the ecosystem". Canonical is making a point here: Ubuntu is not a "distro", it is an independent operating system with its own homegrown solutions.
                          Yeah, screw the ecosystem, including Debian, and let us see where Ubuntu stands after that. They will have an init system (that now is planned to use parts of systemd, the ecosystem), one shell that is not working without software from the ecosystem and plans for a display server, nothing else.
                          I can see how independent they really are.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            wait, we have that code licensed under gpl, allowing everybody to do exactly what ubuntu is doing and now we are blaming them to do what was allowed them to do?

                            sounds logic to me.

                            i can understand the complaints but i cannot undestand the level and most arguments i read are pure nonsense.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by ворот93 View Post
                              +1. Canonical alone is responsible for getting Valve on board. Gabe would rather promote Macs than talk to and bargain with a myriad of small Linux communities.

                              So yeah, screw "the ecosystem". Canonical is making a point here: Ubuntu is not a "distro", it is an independent operating system with its own homegrown solutions.
                              Yeah, they're better/more/different than everyone else.....

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
                                Yeah, screw the ecosystem, including Debian, and let us see where Ubuntu stands after that. They will have an init system (that now is planned to use parts of systemd, the ecosystem), one shell that is not working without software from the ecosystem and plans for a display server, nothing else.
                                I can see how independent they really are.
                                Canonical takes the best for its needs and complies with the license. Whiners can GTFO.

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