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Ubuntu Announces Mir, A X.Org/Wayland Replacement

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  • Originally posted by Mike Frett View Post
    So they want a seamless look huh. Sounds like they are pulling a Metro/Modern on us, well no thanks to that. However, some of you seem to forget this is just the UI, you can still have the Ubuntu core with the all the compatibility with Steam/Software center etc with any number of Official *Buntus like Xubuntu, Kubuntu and Lubuntu. You don't have to like what they are doing to their main Distro.
    Except that when Ubuntu starts using Mir, will Valve port their Steam client to only support Mir?

    Also, there's another angle to this, how this is likely to hinder the adoption of Wayland. Say, in the future, we'll have distros that use Wayland, and then Ubuntu using Mir (which is likely, as I don't see anyone else adopting it, no one else is using Unity either). So then Wayland programs won't run on Mir, Mir programs won't run on Wayland, but X programs will run on both. So from application developers' point of view, the choice is simple - to get their program running on as many platforms as possible, it's best for them to stick with X.

    So all those who keep whining "who cares if it's mir or wayland, we just want to get rid of X now!!!!1111" you should know that this Canonical's move is probably only slowing down the deprecation of X.

    Comment


    • Kill it with fire, before it causes any more damage!

      Creating yet another desktop shell is one thing, but fragmenting Linux's graphic stack...

      I bet they won't make it. They had years to make Compiz work and they've failed. Now they want to make a display server? They are delusional.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Pallidus View Post
        learn to develop FAST like professionals

        instead of whining and bitching
        ... do you even see what you write?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Mike Frett View Post
          So they want a seamless look huh. Sounds like they are pulling a Metro/Modern on us, well no thanks to that. However, some of you seem to forget this is just the UI, you can still have the Ubuntu core with the all the compatibility with Steam/Software center etc with any number of Official *Buntus like Xubuntu, Kubuntu and Lubuntu. You don't have to like what they are doing to their main Distro.

          I personally like simple things, one bar on the bottom with a Menu/Clock/System Tray and Quick Launch; you know, classic stuff. It stays out of my way and I have lots of screen space. I do use Xubuntu, but it's customized as I have described. I'm stuck in my ways and probably will never have it any other way lol. Best of luck to them though.
          This about more than just desktops. This is about every graphical function on LInux.

          Originally posted by dee. View Post
          Except that when Ubuntu starts using Mir, will Valve port their Steam client to only support Mir?

          Also, there's another angle to this, how this is likely to hinder the adoption of Wayland. Say, in the future, we'll have distros that use Wayland, and then Ubuntu using Mir (which is likely, as I don't see anyone else adopting it, no one else is using Unity either). So then Wayland programs won't run on Mir, Mir programs won't run on Wayland, but X programs will run on both. So from application developers' point of view, the choice is simple - to get their program running on as many platforms as possible, it's best for them to stick with X.

          So all those who keep whining "who cares if it's mir or wayland, we just want to get rid of X now!!!!1111" you should know that this Canonical's move is probably only slowing down the deprecation of X.
          Exactly what I was saying, and something that seems validated by that IRC log between a Mir and Wayland devs that has been floating around.

          Comment


          • Vivia SailFish

            I am more excited by Sailfish then anything Ubuntu does. Not sure what SailFish plans to use (maybe somebody can chime in as to what they are doing) for their display. It would be in Canonicals best interest to work with Sailfish and here are a few:

            1) Meego based - ok Meego is almost a four letter word, but it got started and ended with thousands of people working on it. It was designed by a company who knew a few things about making phones Nokia (note I used past tense) .

            2) I am sure Sailfish is building its own set of QML widgets (buttons, containers, etc), why invent yet another one. I don't think you want QML to be your highest common denominator as every app is going to look different and you have zero code reuse for creating buttons you need some kind of QML widget set and theme.

            I think Ubuntu will be relegated to the sidelines,as I am not sure if carriers want or trust Canonical. Carriers are very very critical of what goes on their network. If Ubuntu desktop was a phone OS, it would not pass the first test of being acceptable for a Carrier. (RIM has been wating months to get their BB10 phones certified for US carriers and they know a thing or two about making phones) . Besides this, can Cannonical can deliever on the goods? I mean they are good at giving you icons and providng really ugly themes, but beneath that what have they delieved on. I recall two years ago they said they were going to create TV's. Anybody seen a TV running Ubuntu ?

            Ubuntu phones are DOA

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
              This about more than just desktops. This is about every graphical function on LInux.
              I understand your intention behind the statement, but I still have to humor the comment : I don't think Surface Flinger / Google gives a crap. That is a Linux graphical stack!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DarkCloud View Post
                I am more excited by Sailfish then anything Ubuntu does. Not sure what SailFish plans to use (maybe somebody can chime in as to what they are doing) for their display. It would be in Canonicals best interest to work with Sailfish and here are a few:

                1) Meego based - ok Meego is almost a four letter word, but it got started and ended with thousands of people working on it. It was designed by a company who knew a few things about making phones Nokia (note I used past tense) .

                2) I am sure Sailfish is building its own set of QML widgets (buttons, containers, etc), why invent yet another one. I don't think you want QML to be your highest common denominator as every app is going to look different and you have zero code reuse for creating buttons you need some kind of QML widget set and theme.
                Sailfish is based on Mer (yes, Mer, not Mir). Mer developers are working on Zephyr, which uses Wayland and systemd. Sailfish developers also have noted on their website that they will be using Qt5 on Wayland.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by daniels View Post
                  ... do you even see what you write?
                  Dont feed this troll Daniel. Michael needs to pull his finger out and ban this guy already look at the crap he's posting in another thread. Its really sad that he's been getting away with it for so long, it really lowers the appeal of using the Phoronix forums when you have people like this hanging around.

                  http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...257#post316257

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by zanny View Post
                    Wait, what does this have to do with phone companies? Mir is harming the legitimacy of the GNU/Linux platform as a whole like this, because it means either gpu manufacturers support both Wayland and Mir, in addition to X (Nvidia has way too much invested in CUDA to let X support depreciate), or they just continue providing lackluster or no support at all, or they target only Mir and leave everyone else in the dirt.

                    The actual experience shouldn't be any different between them. The conflict is between those that write the toolkits, sdl, GUI apps using low level primitives, etc. Mir is going to be Canonical developed and not an open development and not be open to outside contribution, and if it takes off, it fucks over Linux hardcore because then driver manufacturers think supporting Mir is good enough, and we lose a decades worth of momentum in getting realistic X support (and later on Wayland).

                    What does CUDA have to do with X?
                    Their compute GPGPUs (Tesla, I think) don't even support displays, I believe.
                    BTW, Mir will be open to outside contribution according to Ancell, you just have to sign the CLA.
                    Lastly, I would be surprised if Mir goes anywhere anytime soon. From what the X/Wayland devs have said, it seems that Canonical don't have the knowledge to do this (citing misunderstandings of core X and Wayland capabilities...event compression was one that I recall, in particular). This just reminds me of an insightful comment at itwire (I believe ninez linked to the OP). It said something along the lines of: why pay a marketing company for their engineering skills?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DarkCloud View Post
                      I am more excited by Sailfish then anything Ubuntu does. Not sure what SailFish plans to use (maybe somebody can chime in as to what they are doing) for their display. It would be in Canonicals best interest to work with Sailfish and here are a few:

                      1) Meego based - ok Meego is almost a four letter word, but it got started and ended with thousands of people working on it. It was designed by a company who knew a few things about making phones Nokia (note I used past tense) .

                      2) I am sure Sailfish is building its own set of QML widgets (buttons, containers, etc), why invent yet another one. I don't think you want QML to be your highest common denominator as every app is going to look different and you have zero code reuse for creating buttons you need some kind of QML widget set and theme.

                      I think Ubuntu will be relegated to the sidelines,as I am not sure if carriers want or trust Canonical. Carriers are very very critical of what goes on their network. If Ubuntu desktop was a phone OS, it would not pass the first test of being acceptable for a Carrier. (RIM has been wating months to get their BB10 phones certified for US carriers and they know a thing or two about making phones) . Besides this, can Cannonical can deliever on the goods? I mean they are good at giving you icons and providng really ugly themes, but beneath that what have they delieved on. I recall two years ago they said they were going to create TV's. Anybody seen a TV running Ubuntu ?

                      Ubuntu phones are DOA
                      I suppose the problem I see is that I don't know what Sailfish offers that others systems (for instance, BB10) don't.
                      FFOS, OTOH, offers something that IS unique, and, is also the only one to see serious levels of commitment from OEMs (it's also a very young project, if you consider that Sailfish has been in development since Maemo).

                      Comment


                      • I expected this

                        Well, almost.
                        - Ubuntu started looking at Wayland for phone purposes, but realized their only push with closed-source drivers is toward Android compat, which Wayland can't have.
                        - As Ubuntu played with Wayland, they had all kinds of things they wanted to change & couldn't (Ex: Server-side decorations).
                        - The result: Wayland forked with all the past 2 years' skirmishes won by Ubuntu.

                        The software that's ran is the software that ships & has devices for it. That's 2 wins this strategy has over Wayland. And a win for open-source.

                        Comment


                        • That Mir shitstorm is surely gonna make lots of ad dollars for phrionix.

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                          • Originally posted by entropy View Post
                            this ubuntu release will be called "conniving cancer", right?
                            Why can't they just help improving the existing stuff...

                            hahahahhahah! ha!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by liam View Post
                              What does CUDA have to do with X?
                              Their compute GPGPUs (Tesla, I think) don't even support displays, I believe.
                              Indeed CUDA talks directly to the kernel module, without going through the X-Org driver.

                              In fact it's better to use without X. When both CUDA and a X-Org driver are running on the same card, they are fighting for the available processing power, and there are very paranoid "time-out" limits on CUDA code, in order to keep X responsive (so you can't really run long algrotihms on CUDA to avoid freezing the interface).
                              When CUDA is ran alone, it's the only thing talking to the kernel module and thus none of these limit is active: you can run whatever you want, even if it takes several seconds per processing.

                              Thus the first maching I tested CUDA onto was a headless server with an old PCI S3 card for test-mode output on a screen during installation (and headless the rest of the time), and a PCIe GeForce card used only to run CUDA code, with no display running at all on it (not even text).

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by snadrus View Post
                                Well, almost.
                                - Ubuntu started looking at Wayland for phone purposes, but realized their only push with closed-source drivers is toward Android compat, which Wayland can't have.
                                wrong. Wayland could have android driver compatibility ~ and has been played with too.

                                Originally posted by snadrus View Post
                                - As Ubuntu played with Wayland, they had all kinds of things they wanted to change & couldn't (Ex: Server-side decorations).
                                Wrong again, nothing in Wayland 'forces' you to use CSD. (Kristian or possibly another Wayland dev said this, a while ago - can't remember where off hand, may have been irc or google+). And being as Canonical has had very little interaction with Wayland development and have been wrong about significant technical details already, i doubt that is the case at all. Canonical didn't even try to have any issues they may have had with Wayland addressed.

                                Originally posted by snadrus View Post
                                - The result: Wayland forked with all the past 2 years' skirmishes won by Ubuntu.
                                If you are imlpying Mir is a fork of wayland (?) - you would be wrong again...

                                Originally posted by snadrus View Post
                                The software that's ran is the software that ships & has devices for it. That's 2 wins this strategy has over Wayland. And a win for open-source.
                                Time will tell, but i think you are getting ahead of actual reality here. (and obviously, your other points aren't even true).

                                Comment

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