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Ubuntu Announces Mir, A X.Org/Wayland Replacement

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  • #46
    Originally posted by newwen View Post
    At least is GPL. If Canonical pulls this off (which I doubt) others can adopt/fork it.

    This is a serious bet. Either Canonical pulls this off or they're over.
    My thoughts exactly. I wouldn't want to try to fix something that's poorly implemented or designed wrong. If they design it well and it's somehow awesome then I will eat my words. I would love for something good to happen with this it's just... well... It's Cononical.

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    • #47
      BTW could someone explain how they support the android graphic drivers by design and why this cannot be done with Wayland??

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      • #48
        Originally posted by dee. View Post
        Canonical tries to make Ubuntu as incompatible with the rest of the linux ecosystem as possible
        I fully agree. At least they try extremely hard to make it look like that.

        Is there actually any successful software project by Canonical?
        Did they gave back anything of major importance to the community?
        I can't think of a single example.

        Meanwhile they managed to implant "GNU/Linux == Ubuntu" into the heads of many (new) users,
        which is only amplified by Valve's choice of Ubuntu as their first-tier distribution.

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        • #49
          Fuck you Canonical. Fuck you.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by plonoma View Post
            Their approach seems to not fragment the driver scene for once (being able to use android and mesa open source drivers).
            The unified graphics driver stuff also sounds interesting.
            The minimal assumptions thing seems a sound approach.

            I'm hoping the cross-pollination of features will make everything better.
            I'm hoping Canonical will succeed with that unified driver model for mobile devices. It's about time someone asks for that in the Android ecosystem, because clearly Google doesn't give a damn, and just lets manufacturers do whatever the hell they want.

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            • #51
              Seriously, I think I might post this thread on reddit, this is just too funny.

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              • #52
                Ok so if Canonical succeeds with this, we could be having:

                - X programs, running either on XWayland over a Wayland compositor or Mir (XMir?)
                - Wayland programs, running natively on a Wayland compositor or a Wayland shim/compatibility layer on Mir
                - Mir programs, running natively on Mir or a Mir shim/compatibility layer on a Wayland compositor
                - Backend-agnostic GTK3/Qt5 programs, running natively on Mir or Wayland

                So, a huge mess on the desktop - even worse than it is now with just different toolkits.

                Basically, on Mir, there will be first-class and second-class citizens - GTK3, Qt5 programs will be running natively while everything else will have to run via a compatibility layer. More problems for developers.

                Wayland would run GTK3, Qt5, and Wayland programs natively, and X programs under XWayland, but it would lack the Android drivers support (unless someone ports them to wayland) and no one would have any incentive to create drivers for Wayland anymore. Everyone would just concentrate on developing Android drivers because that would be less work for them.

                Didn't Canonical just say they don't want to support Android apps natively in Ubuntu because it would disincentivize developers from developing native Ubuntu apps? How is it any different with drivers?

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                  So apparently the wayland amateur kid devs are gonna get their ass handed to them when a real company does it as it should be done. Why do you think that Google does its own thing? Cause the amateurs were good enough? Admit it, amateurs in their free time cannot compete with a behemoth like canonical or other even bigger names. Everybody starts with a free software project and then diverges to meet the needs of the market, the real needs, not what those kids in their bedroom think that the market wants. Wayland is dead on arrival. Nobody wants it or supports it. The biggest names in the industry don't care about it. And don't tell me about Intel. Intel just throws anything to the wall and hopes something will stick to it. ARM is kicking their ass in the mobile arena and they are desperate.
                  Trolls gonna troll.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by BO$$ View Post
                    So apparently the wayland amateur kid devs are gonna get their ass handed to them when a real company does it as it should be done. Why do you think that Google does its own thing? Cause the amateurs were good enough? Admit it, amateurs in their free time cannot compete with a behemoth like canonical or other even bigger names. Everybody starts with a free software project and then diverges to meet the needs of the market, the real needs, not what those kids in their bedroom think that the market wants. Wayland is dead on arrival. Nobody wants it or supports it. The biggest names in the industry don't care about it. And don't tell me about Intel. Intel just throws anything to the wall and hopes something will stick to it. ARM is kicking their ass in the mobile arena and they are desperate.
                    Don't you whine at AMD for the high power usage of their CPUs?

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                    • #55
                      DOA. The fact they didn't jointly impact the steering of Wayland's future and already have Nvidia and AMD on-board says it all.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by dh04000 View Post
                        Its all GPL....... using free software components........ can I have some of those drugs your using? They sound like good stuff.
                        ... with copyright assignment. You can't contribute unless you agree to sign over all your rights to Canonical.

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                        • #57
                          Funny

                          Benchmark=PhoronixTestSuite(
                          Mir((closed_source_driver(AMD,NVIDIA),
                          OSS_driver(AMD,NVIDIA, Intel)),
                          Xorg((closed_source_driver(AMD,NVIDIA),
                          OSS_driver(AMD,NVIDIA, Intel))),
                          Wayland(OSS_driver(AMD,NVIDIA, Intel)));//Big Headache

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by plonoma View Post
                            Their approach seems to not fragment the driver scene for once (being able to use android and mesa open source drivers).
                            Same as Wayland.

                            Originally posted by rafirafi View Post
                            I think they want to be compatible with surface flinger so they can use proprietary drivers without spending any resources, this is not possible with wayland.
                            Mir is the same as Wayland here.

                            Originally posted by rafirafi View Post
                            That's let the tablet market but they don't have the leverage to get the gpu makers to do drivers for us (users of xorg and maybe in the near future wyaland)
                            X.Org no, because the driver involves client-side support as well as a really painful server-side driver where you have to keep constantly changing it for every server ABI break. You'd be surprised at the level of GPU vendor interest in Wayland, since they can keep it all internal to their EGL implementation.

                            Originally posted by newwen View Post
                            Being compatible with Android graphic drivers will surely bring some closed source vendors onboard, namely AMD and NVIDIA.
                            Not really; neither of those two care about Android.

                            Originally posted by newwen View Post
                            This would force Red Hat to make a move.
                            Not really; Red Hat's interest is dictated by RHEL.

                            Originally posted by zanny View Post
                            If they aren't bullshitting, and in October they have a shippable product under GPL that supports drivers from both X and Android, while having a more refined input model
                            Mir won't support X drivers, and the input model stuff is completely wrong. What they quoted about Wayland's input model was flat-out incorrect.

                            Originally posted by newwen View Post
                            Even Google wich has a hard bet on ChromeOS would have to switch to MIR.
                            No, not at all. They don't need a window system, since they already have WebKit and Chromium which internally looks quite similar to something like Wayland. So why bother abstracting it?

                            Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                            Daniels, if you're reading this thread, can you explain that portion of the article to us?
                            I've asked them to explain it to me, actually, since unless I'm missing something huge, it's nonsense.

                            Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                            BTW could someone explain how they support the android graphic drivers by design and why this cannot be done with Wayland??
                            It can, and we looked into what it'd take at some point. The EGL integration side of it isn't actually that difficult, it's just the glue between the Android and the standard GNU/Linux components which is hairy.



                            If you ask me, it was going to happen anyway. Canonical don't have any interest in co-operating with the wider open source community; it's in their interest to keep everything as closed and Ubuntu-specific as possible. Just look at them and GNOME. *shrug*

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by daniels View Post
                              ... with copyright assignment. You can't contribute unless you agree to sign over all your rights to Canonical.
                              That's no longer the case. They changed the agreement so that you keep all your rights, but give them an unrevokable right to use your code under its current license.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by daniels View Post
                                ... with copyright assignment. You can't contribute unless you agree to sign over all your rights to Canonical.
                                That hasn't been true for a while now. You still need to sign a CLA, but you keep your own copyright to your code and grant Canonical a broad license to use it (up to and including relicensing the project which contains your contribution).

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