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Ubuntu Announces Mir, A X.Org/Wayland Replacement

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  • #31
    Being compatible with Android graphic drivers will surely bring some closed source vendors onboard, namely AMD and NVIDIA. Let's see if this means that they drop support for Xorg all together. This would force Red Hat to make a move.

    This means game over for wayland.

    My biggest concern with this is that they've been developing this hidden it from the comunity, so time was lost developing Wayland while everyone thought Canonical would eventually adopt Wayland.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by newwen View Post
      Being compatible with Android graphic drivers will surely bring some closed source vendors onboard, namely AMD and NVIDIA. Let's see if this means that they drop support for Xorg all together. This would force Red Hat to make a move.

      This means game over for wayland.

      My biggest concern with this is that they've been developing this hidden it from the comunity, so time was lost developing Wayland while everyone thought Canonical would eventually adopt Wayland.
      If they aren't bullshitting, and in October they have a shippable product under GPL that supports drivers from both X and Android, while having a more refined input model and something like the way Wayland handles desktop rendition outside the protocol, Wayland's dead. Steam and the major GPU companies will get behind Mir, and Canonical instead of FreeDesktop will control the graphics stack.

      I guess we'll see. I really hope they don't ditch pulseaudio now, though, since we have had around 5 years of slow migration towards it where one sector of Linux finally almost coalesced around one solution to an IO problem.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by newwen View Post
        This means game over for wayland..
        With intel samsung and other companies behind it i don't think so.

        Plus i cant see how canonical was able to get something like this (driver compatible etc etc) in less than a year.

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        • #34
          Just look at some of the Wayland presentations. Pulling off a display server isn't really trivial. I eat my pants if Canonical can develop something in 1 year that beats wayland in every aspect.

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          • #35
            I am of two minds, on one side I like the android driver correlation on the other I hate everything else.

            I wouldn't trust Cononical to write a notepad clone.

            I want to vote Ubuntu off the Linux Island I don't care how popular you think it is. It's like a gay non adopted version of Android. Take the hard work of others pretend it's yours and make it completely incompatible with everything else.

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            • #36
              It sounds like it will be easier to use for developpers than X.org.
              I hope that it means less bugs.

              I also hope that by adapting their driver, Amd will improve it so we have a bug free experience.

              I also hope that it means optimus support and enduro support.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by zanny View Post
                Wayland's dead. Steam and the major GPU companies will get behind Mir, and Canonical instead of FreeDesktop will control the graphics stack.
                Just to measure the size of the problem you can go see how many commits canonical is doing in wayland or any freedesktop project repository... I don't think it's gonna change anything for the linux ecosystem.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by nightmarex View Post
                  I am of two minds, on one side I like the android driver correlation on the other I hate everything else.

                  I wouldn't trust Cononical to write a notepad clone.

                  I want to vote Ubuntu off the Linux Island I don't care how popular you think it is. It's like a gay non adopted version of Android. Take the hard work of others pretend it's yours and make it completely incompatible with everything else.
                  At least is GPL. If Canonical pulls this off (which I doubt) others can adopt/fork it.

                  This is a serious bet. Either Canonical pulls this off or they're over.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by rafirafi View Post
                    Just to measure the size of the problem you can go see how many commits canonical is doing in wayland or any freedesktop project repository... I don't think it's gonna change anything for the linux ecosystem.
                    It would mean something for other distributions if they get no proprietary driver support. Even Google wich has a hard bet on ChromeOS would have to switch to MIR. Canonical is following the Google way of doing their own open source stuff in house. Google has also ditched Pulseaudio in favor of CRAS.

                    With Intel graphics chips and open source drivers getting better and better, this is less of a concern, though.
                    Last edited by newwen; 03-04-2013, 02:59 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by newwen View Post
                      At least is GPL. If Canonical pulls this off (which I doubt) others can adopt/fork it.

                      This is a serious bet. Either Canonical pulls this off or they're over.
                      Either way, they're done with Linux, IMHO.

                      Nobody's ever forked their other projects before, I don't see this being any different.

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                      • #41
                        As for why not using Wayland/Weston, the reasons expressed are the input event handling partly recreates the X semantics, the shell integration parts of the protocol are considered prvileged.
                        Daniels, if you're reading this thread, can you explain that portion of the article to us? Are the X semantics actually any good? How does Wayland differ? "The shell integration parts of the protocol are considered priviledged" Huh?

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                        • #42
                          Holy-Sh*t, the nerd rage in this thread is so entertaining. I need a large diet coke and popcorn to read it by.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by dh04000 View Post
                            Its all GPL....... using free software components........ can I have some of those drugs your using? They sound like good stuff.
                            Free software components, yes - but increasingly, components built by and exclusive to Canonical. They might not have to pay money to use them, but as Ubuntu diverges from other distros, the more it costs developers to support them all.

                            Not a walled garden, maybe - but at least a fence encouraging people to keep out.

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                            • #44
                              History repeating

                              I recall when Apple compared itself to FreeBSD when announcing OS X, there were 3 major things they overhauled: the kernel (XNU, parts brought from NeXT), the SystemV startup scripts (launchd), and the graphical user interface (Quartz). In Linux so far, the kernel constantly changes and SystemV scripts have been replaced with Upstart and/or SystemD. X.org hasn't been completely replaced; Ubuntu's analysis of Wayland is similar to what I've read elsewhere: Wayland will be a successor to Xorg. For light weight tasks, there is DirectFB or Android. Mir appears to be bulkier than Android, but slimmer than Wayland.

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                              • #45
                                THE FUCKING IDIOTS AAAGH

                                ...seriously canonical, get your head out of your ass... stop fragmenting the ecosystem with this pointless bullshit!

                                - Mir is a new display server being developed at Canonical and it is not based on X.Org or Wayland.
                                Yeah, just throw away years of work from the Wayland devs, why can't they just contribute and collaborate with Wayland instead? This is stupid. Canonical tries to make Ubuntu as incompatible with the rest of the linux ecosystem as possible, and is doing a huge disservice to everyone while they're at it.

                                - Android graphics drivers will be supported. Existing DRM/KMS/Mesa/GBM (the open-source Linux graphics drivers) will work. Canonical is pressuring the binary blob vendors to make their drivers compatible.
                                Android graphics drivers, what? This just enables lazines from hardware vendors and gives them an easy way out of supporting wayland. So no matter if Wayland is better or worse, this will likely kill it because hardware makers will just support whatever they can get away with least effort.

                                - Canonical will natively support the GTK3 and Qt/QML tool-kits with Mir.
                                What about software that uses other toolkits then? Will it even run? And if it will, how well?

                                - Mir will be used for all form factors from Ubuntu Phones to the Ubuntu Linux desktop.
                                More stupidity. Why do these idiots insist on using the same tech for handhelds and 10 times larger devices? We don't use saws to bang in nails or hammers to cut boards.

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