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KDE & Xfce Don't Lead To Performance Wins Over Windows 8

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  • #31
    I doubt Michael tested properly. At least the following was likely omitted:

    http://jaysonrowe.blogspot.com/2013/...kde-users.html

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ryao View Post
      I doubt Michael tested properly. At least the following was likely omitted:

      http://jaysonrowe.blogspot.com/2013/...kde-users.html
      You mean Alt+F3 -> More Actions -> Special Window Settigns -> Appearance & Fixes and enable block compositing/force/yes I suppose since the other setting is on.

      I believe kwin implementation should do that by default. the perf loss seems huge.

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      • #33
        This continues being a question of open-source versus proprietary drivers

        As I wrote in the former thread, this is really a question of open-source versus proprietary drivers. I think that this recent test was really unneeded because changing the distro will not turn the performance of an open-source driver over that of a proprietary driver. This is not specific to Intel. KDE & Xfce do not lead to performance wins of AMD/ATI open-source driver over catalysis (proprietary driver).

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        • #34
          That's my blog!

          Hey guys,
          That's actually my blog linked to there.
          Yes, I'm seeing the best performance by using the method that Martin Grlin showed me (Alt+F3 -> More Actions -> Special Window Settigns -> Appearance & Fixes and enable block compositing/force/yes). The next best was my original idea (suspend for full-screen windows), and worst by doing nothing. The difference is not *huge*, but using Martin's method, I'm hovering around 300fps @1920*1080 in CS:Source and between 45-80 in Serious Sam 3 (I get more in Survival mode, less in Campaign mode, I guess there is more going on). This is on a 3770 @4.1GHz w/ an Nvidia 560Ti running the 313 drivers in Kubuntu 13.04.

          Also, in Serious Sam (I need to blog this, if for no other reason so I'll remember it, that's generally why I blog), you can issue the following commands to enable multi-core rendering (it only is using one CPU thread by default for me):

          Code:
          ren_bMultiThreadedRendering=1
          ren_iMaxThreads=4
          I've read that even on an 8 thread i7 (or AMD FX) you shouldn't go over 4 on the iMaxThreads setting as it'll flood the driver and result in lower performance. I would guess either 2-3 for a 4 thread i5 or AMD would be optimal.

          Also, just to note, I've tried Unity and Xfce as well (under 13.04), and the performance isn't really all that different in real-world gameplay. I'm sure true benchmark runs might show some, but I play games on my machine, not run benchmarks most of the time. Even in KDE is slightly less performing (and I can't really see that myself), is the most productive DE for me for everything else, so I'm happy w/ Martins little Window Rule trick.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by phoronix View Post
            Phoronix: KDE & Xfce Don't Lead To Performance Wins Over Windows 8

            When publishing the OpenGL performance results yesterday showing Windows 8 generally leading with a performance advantage over Ubuntu Linux, there was the usual large portion of the Linux community in disbelief. For proving a point, here are now results showing the Windows 8 Intel OpenGL performance compared to Ubuntu Linux when testing the KDE and Xfce desktops.

            http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=18587
            Do the same test with nvidia drivers and there shouldn't be much difference between linux and windows. What you're seeing here is better drivers on windows. The intel guys are doing some good work to catch up on the linux drivers, and performance isn't bad, but it's still a work in progress.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
              hah damn Michael put the whiner's in their place
              To be fair, it was the phoronix ueber-troll who wrote dozens of articles about how much compiz and unity suck at gaming performance, and who is at the same time a kwin fanboi who reports every fart of kwin maintainers.

              It's the eternal crap-troll-fanboi-flame-troll-advertising cycle of life so what you gonna do...

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              • #37
                Originally posted by pandev92 View Post
                Serious sam BFE3 under linux with intel hd4000 is unplayable, 3-4 fps, but under windows 8 with the same chipset, I can run this game on the mid detailes on 1920x1080 and I get 30/40 fps...

                This is the very difference, intel drivers on linux, are sooo sloowwww on 3d games.
                Something is wrong, then. Have you checked the Performance page in the options? In the past, Serious Sam 3 had trouble autodetecting settings for HD 4000, which caused it to use far higher settings than it should have. Currently, it appears to autodetect as CPU: Ultra, GPU: Medium, GPU Memory: Medium.

                On my machine, I've set everything to "Lowest" and am getting fully playable framerates at 2560x1440. The game is fairly choppy, and this is a known issue - their game engine asks us to compile shaders at random points during gameplay, and can't draw until the shader finishes compiling. Once we implement the ARB_separate_shader_objects OpenGL extension, it won't need to do that, which should fix the choppiness. We hope to get to that later this year.
                Free Software Developer .:. Mesa and Xorg
                Opinions expressed in these forum posts are my own.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by przemoli View Post
                  Though I do not know if Intel on Win is capable of OpenGL ES 3.0. So here may be some unique Linux only thingy... (Anyone from Intel OTC to check what is official stance from Intel on GLES 3.0 in Win drivers?
                  The Windows driver team is completely separate from the open source driver team, so I don't know what they're planning and can't speak for them. We'll have to wait and see. For now, I believe ES 3.0 is only available on the open source drivers.
                  Free Software Developer .:. Mesa and Xorg
                  Opinions expressed in these forum posts are my own.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by jaysonrowe View Post
                    Also, in Serious Sam (I need to blog this, if for no other reason so I'll remember it, that's generally why I blog), you can issue the following commands to enable multi-core rendering (it only is using one CPU thread by default for me):

                    Code:
                    ren_bMultiThreadedRendering=1
                    ren_iMaxThreads=4
                    Where I need to to put this?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Kayden View Post
                      The Windows driver team is completely separate from the open source driver team, so I don't know what they're planning and can't speak for them. We'll have to wait and see. For now, I believe ES 3.0 is only available on the open source drivers.
                      Understand separate teams (since other may work on code under some bizarre licence restrictions), though I do not understand lack of code exchange :P

                      Anyway, I wish you getting into steambox or any other high profile project where Linux support would be even more significant than its now :P

                      EDIT: And win driver download page is horrible.. Real Horrible. Good luck finding info about capabilities of driver.. (beyond mere PR speak)

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by pandev92 View Post
                        Serious sam BFE3 under linux with intel hd4000 is unplayable, 3-4 fps, but under windows 8 with the same chipset, I can run this game on the mid detailes on 1920x1080 and I get 30/40 fps...

                        This is the very difference, intel drivers on linux, are sooo sloowwww on 3d games.
                        It's not only driver problem, because SS3 isn't optimized for Linux. Wargame, in contrary works better under Linux, so I can say: KDE, XFCE and Ubuntu lead to performance wins over Windows. It's as true as moronix title.

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                        • #42
                          One thing

                          Exactly why would Windows anything be relevant to me?. I have zero intentions of going back to Windows, so of what relevance is it that Windows is faster?. It's not about whining, It's about relevance, being faster doesn't remove the back-doors, law enforcement agreements or insecurity of old code that's built on top of something thats a decade old.

                          So what now, is this just Phoronix in a bad mood and decides to fight it's users?. Sorry I don't get it, and I don't get why I should care about what's happening on the Windows platform either.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Mike Frett View Post
                            Exactly why would Windows anything be relevant to me?. I have zero intentions of going back to Windows, so of what relevance is it that Windows is faster?. It's not about whining, It's about relevance, being faster doesn't remove the back-doors, law enforcement agreements or insecurity of old code that's built on top of something thats a decade old.

                            So what now, is this just Phoronix in a bad mood and decides to fight it's users?. Sorry I don't get it, and I don't get why I should care about what's happening on the Windows platform either.
                            Don't forget the article is talking about Intel graphics, which are known for being slower on Linux than on Windows. Do the same with a NVIDIA graphics card and the performance will pretty much be the same. 8)

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by schmidtbag View Post
                              hah damn Michael put the whiner's in their place.
                              Plans to elaborate that? Because we asked for a test done on something other than Unity, just because it was known for performance regressions?

                              Anyways, this article was clarifying some things for me, thanks Michael.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by phoronix View Post
                                Phoronix: KDE & Xfce Don't Lead To Performance Wins Over Windows 8
                                WTF?

                                1. The test conditions / setup box is as always unreadably small and must be scrolled.
                                2. From what I am reading there it is using an intel chip.
                                3. What the hell is this "test"? It is comparing the driver implementation for intel chips on Windows and Linux. Doesn't really have that much to do with the desktop environment.

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