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Valve & Intel Work On Open-Source GPU Drivers

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  • #76
    They may be thinking about the Asian market. Get in early and own it.

    I am as frustrated as every one else with the borked patent system in the US. I am even more afraid that our PM intends to embrace the American patent system with both arms.

    As for S3TC. I thought that the patent on that was ruled invalid? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item&px=OTkxMQ
    If not how long until the patent runs out? For those out of the US or those who just don't give a damn about the US patent system there is partial support. http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/S3TC

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    • #77
      Well all this S3TC mess is Apple's own damn fault to begin with. If they didn't threaten everyone to go nuclear on every silly little thing, HTC wouldn't need to buy S3's patents to protect itself from Apple's legal assault. If there was a way to work it out with HTC, trust me they would've given the Linux community the S3TC patent we so desperately need. Now thanks to Apple's constant bombardment of legal threats against every damn company in existence, all of these companies are holding onto their patents even tighter for fear of being sued to oblivion if they don''t have anything to counter-sue. For every win Apple gets, it makes us Linux users take collateral damage in the form of reduced features, clumsy/awkward/inefficient software implementations and general sub-optimal performance that the programmers have to make on a variety of software products.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by 9a3eedi View Post
        All these things Valve is doing is very exciting.
        But it also kinda makes me kinda worried. Despite their enthusiasm, their work on Linux is still considered to be an investment. What if they don't get a lot of returns from this investment? There is no guarantee that people will be flocking to Linux after a few games get ported. What if despite all their work people still cling to windows and the revenue they get from Linux still ends up being too small?
        I think if that were to happen, it would really kill game companies' support for Linux.
        But I'm just being pessimistic here. Go Valve!
        I want to say, there is a lot of people, who play only one game. You know, like HoN, EvE, SC2, D3, WoW, CS, Dota2, L4D2, TF2 etc. There is a lot of Linux users who have partition with Windows or WINE only for one game. If some of this games (like CS, Dota, L4D2, TF2 ) become available for Linux, isn't that great?! It help many people get rid of Windows from their computers, so they will expand Linux-only gamers army.

        I can only hope Blizzard will follow Valve.

        Originally posted by jvillain View Post
        As for S3TC. I thought that the patent on that was ruled invalid? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item&px=OTkxMQ
        If not how long until the patent runs out? For those out of the US or those who just don't give a damn about the US patent system there is partial support. http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/S3TC
        S3TC patent is belong to S3 Graphics. HTC own S3 Graphics. HTC is part of Open Invention Network (OIN). So someone need to ask HTC move S3TC patent into this list to make S3TC available for Linux (so distros will be able to provide s3tc package out-of-the-box) or simply allow everyone use it (this make possible include S3TC into Mesa).

        The other solution for S3TC problem is S2TC, that is already available in Debian and Ubuntu. When you install psychonauts-bin:i386 from Ubuntu Software Center you will also get libtxc-dxtn-s2tc0:i386 installed. So isn't solution is already here?

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        • #79
          According to the information i could get from wikipedia (hanven't read the whole documents myself) these are the patented cases regarding ST3C:

          EP1034505 (B1)
          JP3978478 (B2)
          JP4085116 (B2)
          US6658146 (B1)
          US6683978 (B1)
          US6775417 (B2)
          US7039244 (B2)
          US7043087 (B2)
          US7801363 (B2)

          They are still valid acording to the USPTO and EPO (can't read japanese). They expire in 2017-10-02, so in the worst case we are looking at five years for becoming public domain.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by asdx
            I find that unlikely, I mean, imagine how many gamers will switch to Linux full-time after we get high-quality open source drivers that work and perform great, imagine what a great system we'll have once the drivers get improved, more robust, and once we get Wayland and the patent issues go away with Mesa, etc. Imagine once we get commercial games and the latest titles, etc.

            It would be so nice to see more companies following Valve's lead with this initiative, I think Linux desktop market share will only grow after this and that's good for Valve and everyone involved.

            I don't think they can go wrong with this, but it has to be well executed and we need help from the hardware vendors and everyone too.
            I agree that Linux will be much better after drivers get improved and things like that.. and I'm pretty sure the Linux community will grow greatly from this.. There's probably a lot of developers who will actually start caring about Linux now. But Linux has more issues than just a few driver problems. Commercial support isn't there yet, and even if Valve ported their entire library to Linux, it'll take more than that to switch gamers to Linux. People also want games from other companies, like Gearbox, EA, Bethesda, etc... those companies don't even have their games ported to Mac yet, of all things.

            And that's just games. Software-wise, people would also want to run MS Office (LibreOffice just won't cut it for a lot of people) and all their favorite windows programs.

            I want to say, there is a lot of people, who play only one game. You know, like HoN, EvE, SC2, D3, WoW, CS, Dota2, L4D2, TF2 etc. There is a lot of Linux users who have partition with Windows or WINE only for one game. If some of this games (like CS, Dota, L4D2, TF2 ) become available for Linux, isn't that great?! It help many people get rid of Windows from their computers, so they will expand Linux-only gamers army.

            I can only hope Blizzard will follow Valve.
            Good point. Reminds me of a lot of other comments I've read in here.. how Valve should've ported TF2 because that's probably their most popular game, and many people just play that.
            Last edited by 9a3eedi; 07-21-2012, 01:34 AM.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by johnc View Post
              That sounds like a good enough motivation to me.

              I'm just curious to know more about the background info / thinking process. I'm nosy.
              Additional info http://newcdn.flamehaus.com/Valve_Handbook_LowRes.pdf

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              • #82
                Forget EA (the most recent games from them suck anyway) ....EA and Steam/Valve are in a state of War...well, not exactly, but all future EA games will be Origin exclusive.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Michael View Post
                  As I've said for months, the stuff Valve has going on will make or break the Linux desktop for good. The stuff they have planned is really great.
                  I don't like the diction of "make or break". That sounds like there's a chance that they could make things worse in the end by what they do. Hopefully you're wrong and that all they're contributing is pure positive with no negatives.

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
                    I don't like the diction of "make or break". That sounds like there's a chance that they could make things worse in the end by what they do. Hopefully you're wrong and that all they're contributing is pure positive with no negatives.
                    It's not that they'd do something to make toxic Linux, but that if Valve Software can't become viable on Linux, there's likely no hope for the Linux desktop ever going truly mainstream and posing serious competition to Windows on the desktop.
                    Michael Larabel
                    http://www.michaellarabel.com/

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Michael View Post
                      It's not that they'd do something to make toxic Linux, but that if Valve Software can't become viable on Linux, there's likely no hope for the Linux desktop ever going truly mainstream and posing serious competition to Windows on the desktop.
                      My words. I hope Valve is fully aware of their responsibilities...

                      On the other hand, if Valve can't do it who else could?
                      But that's exactly the (dangerous) point of the story.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by entropy View Post
                        My words. I hope Valve is fully aware of their responsibilities...

                        On the other hand, if Valve can't do it who else could?
                        But that's exactly the (dangerous) point of the story.
                        I don't think Valve is a "make or brake" factor for desktop linux.

                        Linux has its own problems that make it "difficult" for the average user + you have to have something that might make them take notice. Freedom is not one of the things that will attract for sure. Techical advance either. Apple managed to attract people with beauty and the promise of peace of mind (just works etc.).

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                        • #87
                          The last thing in the world I would feel from an Apple product is peace of mind.

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by jvillain View Post
                            The last thing in the world I would feel from an Apple product is peace of mind.
                            But they're magical.

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                            • #89
                              A lot of these problems mirror issues that we've seen with other game engines (e.g., Unigine).
                              I'm sure they kinda loled and ignore them, 'cause they're just some russian dudes, right? But when the big boys at Valve cometh... things... are... different

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by 89c51 View Post
                                I don't think Valve is a "make or brake" factor for desktop linux.

                                Linux has its own problems that make it "difficult" for the average user + you have to have something that might make them take notice. Freedom is not one of the things that will attract for sure. Techical advance either. Apple managed to attract people with beauty and the promise of peace of mind (just works etc.).
                                I think you're wrong, Valve can do damage to Linux if they fail. They will be an example for other companies not to follow. They will think: wow Valve such a big company and they failed, we will probably fail too so we better stay out of Linux.

                                I think we should contact other companies now and tell them that Valve is porting Steam and games to Linux and they should follow them before seeing the end result of Valve's endeavour.

                                I just hope that all the games ported to Linux can be played on older distributions, in my case Ubuntu 10.10 - latest with Gnome 2.32.
                                Btw, fuck Gnome3, GTK3, Arch linux, Debian, Mark Shuttleworth and software patents.

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