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Intel Winning Over NVIDIA For Linux Enthusiasts

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  • #16
    Originally posted by grotgrot View Post
    Just ordered a new laptop and I had been thinking about getting one with optimus assuming that things worked now. The recent publicity was enough to make sure I got a machine without Nvidia. (My first two laptops both had Nvidia. My third and fourth now don't.)

    On my desktop I have been all Nvidia for over a decade, usually replacing my card every 18 months or so. I don't remember when I did the last replacement. This has mostly been due to the model numbering as they suddenly started blasting through numbers and letters making it virtually impossible to tell the relative performance of two cards. (eg how much faster is a 200XY compared to 9000XYZ). On my next mobo replacement I am going Intel for the GPU.

    Even on the Android side one needs to be careful. I was very surprised with the Nexus 7 being Nvidia based. I saw some XDA content where they said that TI's OMAP platform is the only one that is all open source drivers. (Contrast with Nvidia and Qualcomm.) So guess what platform any Android devices will be that I buy next.

    Of course it is dangerous to extrapolate from a sample of one, but I do know that I have personally cost Nvidia hundreds of dollars including the above. And that the chances of them getting a cent from me in the future currently looks to be zero.
    OMAP isnt all oss. First, there are the pvr drivers, second, the ducati drivers, third, radio.
    Aside from that, I was surprised Goog went with Nvidia again after they were burned with Tegra2. One of the reviews for the Nexus 7 even said that they thiught that the SoC was slightly underpowered for the os.
    The problem, I imagine, is that there are very few choices right now unless you go with something custom and Goog only had four months to bith design and build this.

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    • #17
      I like this!

      I like to hear that Intel is going ahead, they deserve it. Unfortunately, now they are no match for mid to high-end nVidia and AMD graphic cards, but anyway I like Intel's commitment to linux and open source.
      AMD, go fuck youself for your buggy driver, for no changelogs, for dropping "old" hardware support, for not releasing technical documentation about your cards or releasing it too late, for not helping the users crying on your forum.
      nVidia, go fuck yourself for not realeasing an open source driver, for not helping nouveau guys, for not making your binary blob kms compatible and for not releasing technical documentation about your cards. Since you're not releasing the driver even for ~300 million dollar I think that something is very fishy here, maybe you implemented a backdoor that brings you more than that? Well, fuck you for making me have this thoughs. I like that you're losing money.

      I think that next year with Wayland and systemd and intel's open source driver linux will shine, while Microsoft with their piece of crap Windows 8, nVidia and AMD with their anti-open-source tactics will lose some of their market shares.

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      • #18
        Can intel play Oilrush? Imho, nvidia is still in a great place, should gaming on linux ever take off.
        Lately, I've been using linux just for desktop work, but still, with nvidia I get full KDE effect with proper power management.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by bulletxt View Post
          And once again, NVIDIA doesn't care about desktop users. They care about professional Quadro gpus for professional companies at hollywood that use linux to do rendering and all those fancy stuff. And I can do plenty of other examples.

          Nvidia has only engineers, and engineers generally don't give a shit about linux, open source, gpl and all these "socialist" concepts. They do what they are paid for = a good driver for the platform they target.

          All the rest is just "ok, you get even support for geforce because that's fine". I'm still not sure why everyone is unable to understand this.

          Anyways, yes maybe nvidia is loosing market under Linux for the "desktop", but I could reply that there isn't any official Linux desktop market. It's business people.

          Intel on the other hand, has another history on the background and thinks in a different way. But Intel doesn't have the know how NVIDIA has with GPU, so a comparison is pointless.
          Well, Windows and closed source, probably will not exist after 3-5 years. So nvidia must invest on "Socialist/Free".

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          • #20
            Originally posted by artivision View Post
            Well, Windows and closed source, probably will not exist after 3-5 years. So nvidia must invest on "Socialist/Free".
            You've gotta be kidding me.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by bulletxt View Post
              Nvidia has only engineers, and engineers generally don't give a shit about linux, open source, gpl and all these "socialist" concepts. They do what they are paid for = a good driver for the platform they target.
              I'm an engineer, and I do care about Linux, open source, GPL, and all those "socialist" concepts. I'd love to contribute as much of my work as possible to the open source ecosystem. My colleagues are in the same boat.

              However, that doesn't always make sense for the business side. Businesses need to sell something so they can pay us. I think you'll find it's typically management that has no interest in Linux; it's just an additional cost for little perceived gain. Where it could be worthwhile, few engineers have the extra cycles to make that business proposal and convince everyone up the chain (at least at the company I work for).

              It may be more challenging at an established company like Nvidia. They've found their markets and understand how to compete in them. They probably don't want to jeopardize those existing markets by opening up something that may give them a competitive advantage. They don't see enough value in taking the risk.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
                Awesome chart. Four shades of blue and two shades of red. Hang on; let me get my laptop with the Pantone color sensor to detect the subtle variances that my eyes can't distinguish.
                I'm with you. While this is a very frequent issue in most technical sites, Phoronix is probably the worst offender.

                Michael, seriously, there are many different colors. Make them easily distinguishable. It's not that difficult.

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                • #23
                  All that hate against Nvidia and AMD is just childish. Those two are private businesses and whatever they do is their own responsibility. Nobody forces anyone to buy their hardware. Just go out there and buy what works for you.

                  If you're a gamer and like very high end games, you're probably having to use Windows anyway, so why bother?

                  If you're an ocassional gamer, you're going to dual boot.

                  If you like playing the games available on Linux, you'll be well served with both the binary drivers or simple graphics like Intel's.

                  If you're a graphics professional (like my customers, BTW), just buy yourself a Quadro and be happy.

                  If you're not a gamer, Intel graphics are well beyond your most critical requirements (not just the current ones, but those from five years ago too).

                  Just don't buy AMD or Nvidia unless you have very good reasons to. You'll discover most of the time you don't.

                  The rest is just complaining as a sport.


                  EDIT: I just bought a second hand Lenovo Thinkpad T400. Switched off its ATI card in BIOS and Ubuntu is running beautifully with Intel's pretty old graphics in there.
                  Last edited by Aleve Sicofante; 07-05-2012, 09:24 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Time to cancel steam on linux. Seems most users won't be able to run the games anyways.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by fransdb View Post
                      Why not Intel? Well like to use AMD CPU's until they can not compete enough with Intel anymore - might be very soon now.
                      That would be about 2 years ago.

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                      • #26
                        On mobile, your choices are generally Intel, or Intel + nVidia with Optimus. Since Optimus is an unworkable piece of crap on Linux, your only sane choice is to go Intel, even though they fail comparatively on performance.

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                        • #27
                          I'm sure Intel has scored points with Linux users by providing good open source drivers, still, to me it seems that it has at best only accelerated what was going to happen anyway, which is that igpu solutions will eventually make discrete graphics just about obsolete on end user desktops. NVidia has obviously seen this aswell, however as they can't provide an igpu solution for x86 due to not getting a licence, they've turned towards arm.

                          Meanwhile there will still be markets for high performance GPU's in 3d and hpc, areas in which Linux is huge, and those were already NVidia's targeted markets on Linux to begin with so I don't see NVidia suffering too much from Intel being used increasingly on the Linux end user desktop. It's another matter when we talk about the Windows desktop, people are finding less need for discrete graphics there aswell and that will really hurt NVidia as they (as mentioned due to licencing) can't provide igpu solutions for the x86 on which the vast majority of Windows system runs and that market is of course HUGE.

                          However this transition will still take time, I'd guess two more generations of igpu architectures before practically all desktop end users find that the performance they get from igpu solutions turns dropping discrete gpu's into a no brainer unless they have particularly high performance needs.

                          Obviously this is mainly me speculating based upon what trends and technical progresses I've seen, as always time will tell.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by mbouchar View Post
                            The first thing I see in the graphic is that almost everything is blue or red. How are we supposed to distinguish nVidia and Innotech / VMWare and Cirrus?
                            First google hit: http://www.perceptualedge.com/articl...sing_color.pdf
                            In that document are some nice easy distinguishable colors.

                            But you can also learn from LibreOffice et al (data is made up and doesn't add up to 100%, I don't care):


                            Note the colors and the dots which have different shapes. It is already enough if you let the lines start and end with these shapes instead of dots.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by allquixotic View Post
                              Awesome chart. Four shades of blue and two shades of red. Hang on; let me get my laptop with the Pantone color sensor to detect the subtle variances that my eyes can't distinguish.
                              I second that too!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by grotgrot View Post
                                Even on the Android side one needs to be careful. I was very surprised with the Nexus 7 being Nvidia based. I saw some XDA content where they said that TI's OMAP platform is the only one that is all open source drivers. (Contrast with Nvidia and Qualcomm.) So guess what platform any Android devices will be that I buy next.
                                This is completely wrong: TI OMAP use IMG tech GPU and their drivers are not open source.

                                EDIT: Oops I had missed liam answer.

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