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How Hardware Companies Determine Their Linux Base

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Kivada View Post
    Don't get distracted by the VDPAU cookie.
    Why not? There are plenty of people who don't really care that much about 3D and games and stuff but do care about video decode acceleration. VDPAU gives you that, sure their drivers are closed source but so is AMD's competing XvBA implementation. On the open source side there's nothing on both sides.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by monraaf View Post
      Why not? There are plenty of people who don't really care that much about 3D and games and stuff but do care about video decode acceleration. VDPAU gives you that, sure their drivers are closed source but so is AMD's competing XvBA implementation. On the open source side there's nothing on both sides.
      Not quite yet, but there is working XvMC for r600+ hardware and a h264 state tracker in progress.

      That said, it will probably work just as well with nouveau as it will with radeon after a bit of tweaking.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by RealNC View Post
        Get NVidia to notice what exactly?
        The demand for free drivers and open specs.

        Nvidia could get away with being the only major hardware manufacturer with completely closed specs for a while because they were the only ones with reasonable Linux support.

        This is slowly changing. r300g has top notch performance, the r600+ drivers are maturing and work is starting on optimisations, OpenGL 3 support in Mesa is virtually around the corner, video decoding is on the way for Gallium3d.

        None of this will probably beat the blob in pure performance, but it's bound to be close enough that most people will not care, and will not wish to deal with installing secretive binaries if they have open drivers which work out of the box.

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        • #19
          Hmmm, I believe John Bridgman said here that even if they had the whole nix* home market it would not cover the costs of their OSS team, so I doubt Nvidia (w/sh)ould care.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by AnonymousCoward View Post
            Hmmm, I believe John Bridgman said here that even if they had the whole nix* home market it would not cover the costs of their OSS team, so I doubt Nvidia (w/sh)ould care.
            I'm not sure which comment you're referencing, but that doesn't sound quite right. Best guess is that I said something along the lines of "even if we had the whole *nix home market it would not cover the costs of developing an OSS stack comparable to the proprietary driver", or something like that.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by deanjo View Post
              Can you show me one such example where that has worked?
              Core2.....

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              • #22
                Originally posted by devius View Post
                Core2.....
                What? Are you saying that the only reason that Core 2 has linux support is because people bought another processor that supported linux? FYI the Core 2 always was supported in linux. Care to try again?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                  The demand for free drivers and open specs.

                  Nvidia could get away with being the only major hardware manufacturer with completely closed specs for a while because they were the only ones with reasonable Linux support.
                  You assume that we all care about open specs and open drivers and forget that many of us believe that companies should have the right to keep their code and specs closed as long as they deliver a good product (software or hardware) that it's worth its money and therefore we're glad to pay for. If they stop delivering a good product, no matter of open or closed, *then* I will stop buying from them.

                  So no, from my point of view, NVidia should not open up anything. It's their hardware, they have the right to market it as they see fit. You're essentially blackmailing here. "Open specs or else..." Where I come from, this is called bigotry.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    I'm not sure which comment you're referencing, but that doesn't sound quite right. Best guess is that I said something along the lines of "even if we had the whole *nix home market it would not cover the costs of developing an OSS stack comparable to the proprietary driver", or something like that.

                    Could be

                    Would you then say that the current team is "profitable"?

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                      Where I come from, this is called bigotry.
                      Although I agree with the rest, where I come from this is called being a customer, ie only buying the product if it suits your needs...

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                        What? Are you saying that the only reason that Core 2 has linux support is because people bought another processor that supported linux?
                        No, it was a more general case and not about linux in particular. The reason Core exists and was as good as it was was because the Pentium4 sucked ass and intel's market share started declining a lot due to the then excellent Athlon Xp/64. The point being that if a company doesn't offer what the market wants, the market will turn to somebody else. Of course that the scenario of current linux graphics drivers always involves a tradeof, so all the companies involved are somewhat tied in that regard. Either way you go, you end up loosing something. If either AMD manages to offer great video acceleration and more driver stability or nvidia implements missing functionalities like optimus and xrandr support (and changes to a more open-source friendly stance) things might change. And let's not forget the other gentleman lurking in the shadows. If intel can provide better drivers and more powerful hardware it may also win this "battle".

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                        • #27
                          It doesn't work. AMD/Nvidia don't sell hardware to you, they sell it to OEMs/AIBs/...

                          Only if the OEMs demand it, then you will see change. It has worked with VIA (even if only temporary).

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                            You assume that we all care about open specs and open drivers
                            No, not all of us, of course.

                            Just the vast majority of those who actually make Linux and software for it. And that's a very unfortunate enemy to have. If you keep showing the middle finger at these people and making their life difficult, they might not rush to help you when you need assistance.

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                            • #29
                              What I'm saying is that your average Ubuntu user doesn't care, but the average Ubuntu user does not design the kernel API, or decide about x.org functionality.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                                No, not all of us, of course.

                                Just the vast majority of those who actually make Linux and software for it. And that's a very unfortunate enemy to have. If you keep showing the middle finger at these people and making their life difficult, they might not rush to help you when you need assistance.
                                This is also true in reverse. NVidia is also a very unfortunate enemy to have, because you need their Linux driver support. If you show them the middle finger even though they keep providing driver support against all odds (missing driver ABI, etc), one has to wonder at which point they'll go like "screw Linux."

                                The fact that they keep bothering with desktop Linux and multimedia even though kernel and X.Org don't treat binary drivers as first class citizens is something that I personally value. It's good customer support.

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