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Linux AGP support in Catalyst 8.11?

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  • #16
    To this point, I've ignored the suggestions to upgrade my motherboard and processor. Since I've gotten so many, let me just say that I appreciate that very thoughtful feedback, but it doesn't serve my present purposes. My hardware does everything that I need it to do, and I expect that to remain the case for quite a while.

    It's precisely because I'm thinking that a major upgrade is a while off that I'm messing around with this graphics card upgrade: Since I'm not going to do a fundamental system upgrade for quite a while, I want the system that I'm going to use for the foreseeable future to be as good as possible. For me, getting more performance by upgrading the graphics card is a luxury feature and the pursuit of a hobby.

    So, thanks for all the very thoughtful suggestions about hardware upgrades. I agree completely that upgrading the motherboard and processor are the best way to increase my overall system performance, but I'm not asking how best to upgrade my system performance. I'm asking about software support for specific hardware.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by wfeltmate View Post
      I would recommend that you return the card while you can. The sluggishness and bottlenecks you are experiencing aren't something that can be properly solved by a new video card; it may relieve or hide them some, but the cause of these issues is the age of the other parts.
      I don't think that the issue is my motherboard and processor: Note that my complaints are about issues that I did not have using my geForce 3 card. Yes, the incredibly minor hitch in window manipulations is present under both cards, and I expected that to improve. However, why does Mandriva 2009 system in general stutter under the Radeon 3650 but run smoothly with the geForce 3? Should I expect that to improve?

      Here's the source of my disappointment with the Radeon 3650: I was expecting the Radeon 3650 to be a major upgrade for several reasons: Lots more processing power, eight times the RAM, and running in 8x mode on the AGP bus (instead of 2x or 4x - I can't recall which the geForce 3 was running). What I got was the similar or much worse performance in terms of general system smoothness. I'm thinking of that as an ATI driver support issue, since it surely cannot be that the geForce 3 card is faster than the Radeon 3650! Should I expect that to improve?
      Last edited by BlackPak; 11-11-2008, 03:00 PM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by hybridr6 View Post
        I'm no expert and I can only attest to my own experience, but I would venture to say that the 3650 will have better support in the near future. I myself am using an athlon64 on a 754 mobo with a sapphire 3850 and I have had problems in the past where the card just would not work. Fortunately the card started working around 8.6 and things have only gotten better.
        That's encouraging - thanks for the input!

        Originally posted by hybridr6 View Post
        As for the stuttering you have with compiz effects you may try running a "lighter" window manager or see if there are some services running that you dont need. Like Ubuntu running bluetooth by default even if you don't have a bluetooth device...
        Well, that's a really minor cosmetic issue. I only mention it because the Radeon 3650 is giving me the same performance with respect to that issue as I was getting from the geForce 3. I was expecting improvement in all phases. I'm puzzled as to how there could not be improvement in all phases. That's what makes me wonder if this upgrade was worth making at all.

        Originally posted by hybridr6 View Post
        Best of luck and don't upgrade it until it dies!
        Thanks!
        Last edited by BlackPak; 11-11-2008, 03:02 PM.

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        • #19
          I was expecting improvement in all phases. I'm puzzled as to how there could not be improvement in all phases. That's what makes me wonder if this upgrade was worth making at all.
          The reason why you don't experience any significant improvements is that your video card is being held back by the CPU (and possibly a lack of system RAM) Unfortunately the 512MB of video RAM will *only* impact 3d applications. If you don't use any 3d applications, the new card will not make an impact (despite it being 20-30x faster than the old one).

          You should probably had upgraded your RAM and hard disk. Both of these would have had a significant impact on your overall system performance.

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          • #20
            Well, that's a really minor cosmetic issue. I only mention it because the Radeon 3650 is giving me the same performance with respect to that issue as I was getting from the geForce 3. I was expecting improvement in all phases. I'm puzzled as to how there could not be improvement in all phases. That's what makes me wonder if this upgrade was worth making at all
            I know exactly what you mean, the performance I get in compiz is only slightly better than what I had with my 7600gs which I upgraded to my 3850. As others have stated elsewhere on this forum the way compiz makes calls to the video card has some issues with ati drivers . The exact method and issue I can't recall atm (again I'm no expert). However most opengl applications do run smoothly. If you run an opengl based benchmark such as Lightsmark and compare the two cards I'm sure you will notice a rather significant difference in fps.


            I must address the comments about bottlenecks. There most likely is one, but I think every one will agree that you should get the same if not improved performance.
            Last edited by hybridr6; 11-11-2008, 06:07 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by BlackPak View Post
              However, my presently preferred Linux distribution, Mandriva 2009, stutters too much to be pleasant to use. It was working smoothyl under the geForce 3. I don't know what to think of that. I've used the backports feature to install the latest release of the Radeon drivers - version 8.10.
              It could be to do with kernel options or maybe versions.
              Some have found that they need to use the kernel boot option

              nopat

              to cure stuttering with recent kernels.

              Things are fine under Kubuntu 8.10. Window movement had been slow under Kwin, but is perfectly responsive under Compiz. However, I was hoping to improve the performance in some minor areas of Compiz (i.e., some minor jerkiness in the rendering of some window transitions). That hasn't happened. The one real problem is that asking the system to shut down often stalls out at a black screen.

              Should I attribute all this to the current software landscape and figure the bugs will all be worked out in time? Or should I return this graphics card again while I still can?
              I see a delay in maximising windows with compiz. This is because fglrx uses XAA (it's the same if you use XAA on a r500 card with the OSS drivers)

              The r500 OSS drivers are nicer in compiz using EXA, and work is in progress for OSS drivers for R600 cards, so in the future you should have a better experience.

              Personally I am glad I got my HD3850 as an upgrade from X1600, the games I currently play like etqw,nexuiz and COD4 (in windows) do get a good boost WRT eye candy and in the case of 50 player COD4 servers frame rate as well, even though I only have a 2.1GHZ 32bit single CPU.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by BlackPak View Post
                I have to admit that my results are spotty enough to make me wonder if I should have bothered upgrading the card, or if it was a mistake to move to ATI. My move was from a GeForce3 Ti 200 with 64 MB RAM to a Radeon 3650 with 512 MB RAM.
                Don't think the problem has anything to do with ATI -- it's with using a new card + an ATI bus in general. If Nvidia still bothered to produce new AGP cards, I'd guarantee you they'd be having the same problems.

                If you were upgrading from a GeForce3 Ti 200, you didn't need to go with something like a 3650 -- anything in the GeForce 7000 or ATI X1000 series would've been enough.

                Luckily, though, you can always return the 3650 and get a great used card off Ebay.

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                • #23
                  3D support for the 3650 AGP?

                  Originally posted by BlackPak View Post
                  Thanks for all the help, legume and mdmadph! The card is installed and I believe it is working well enough. Unlike my attempt to move to this card in July, the Linux distributions that I use are now able to make use of the card.

                  However, my presently preferred Linux distribution, Mandriva 2009, stutters too much to be pleasant to use. It was working smoothyl under the geForce 3. I don't know what to think of that. I've used the backports feature to install the latest release of the Radeon drivers - version 8.10.

                  Things are fine under Kubuntu 8.10. Window movement had been slow under Kwin, but is perfectly responsive under Compiz. However, I was hoping to improve the performance in some minor areas of Compiz (i.e., some minor jerkiness in the rendering of some window transitions). That hasn't happened. The one real problem is that asking the system to shut down often stalls out at a black screen.
                  Hi,
                  I've also tried to upgrade an older mobo (dual opteron) with the 3650 AGP and have been trying various distros. I've currently got Mandriva 2009 x64 with graphics (2D) working, but no 3D. Were you able to get 3D going using the fglrx driver? DRI is disabled, so Mesa kicks in by default, and is relatively glacial.

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                  • #24
                    For the first time since I bought the X1950-AGP more than a year ago, I got it running on Fedora 9.

                    I have a Compaq with a bios without the AGP settings and nothing have worked for me until this relase.

                    I used the instructions at
                    http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=189227

                    which worked but an additional link is needed in
                    ln -s /usr/lib/fglrx/libGL.so.1 /usr/lib/fglrx/libGL.so
                    and re-run
                    ldconfig

                    After that my code works, hmm glchess still don't.

                    Anyway I'm happy

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by TinkersDamn View Post
                      Hi,
                      I've also tried to upgrade an older mobo (dual opteron) with the 3650 AGP and have been trying various distros. I've currently got Mandriva 2009 x64 with graphics (2D) working, but no 3D. Were you able to get 3D going using the fglrx driver? DRI is disabled, so Mesa kicks in by default, and is relatively glacial.
                      I did get 3D working, just using the Mandriva graphical configuration tools (sorry - I can never remember what the tools are called, and I don't have one of my Mandriva boxes in front of me). Here's what I did: Go to the settings for graphics card. It had already properly identified my card (although only as belonging to a very large group, something like Radeon x1300 and later). I re-select that already properly-set choice of graphics card and proceed. I am then asked if I want to enable proprietary drivers, and I choose to activate said drivers. I am notified that I must log out for the settings to take effect and the logout prompts are provided to me. I do not long out at this point, but close the setting dialog for the graphics card and monitor settings. In the graphical configuration tools, hardware section, next to the settings for graphics card and monitor, there are settings for 3D. I open that dialog, choose the Compiz desktop, and open the advanced settings drop-down, which brings up a choice between native support and XGL. I choose XGL, then log out/restart the X server.

                      I've found that if you try to run the 3D desktop in Mandriva 2009, with ATI gear, using the native support, it just crashes. XGL has to be selected.

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