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  • Disappointing...

    I just had to make a post here, since some amd devs frequent this place, to voice my disappointment of the lack of good drivers and crossfire support. Also, lackluster CPU performance.

    My main computer is starting to show it's age, so once again, it's upgrade time. Now, I would really like to see AMD survive, and I would love to support them, but, how can I? I've been scouring the net for the past few weeks, catching up on all the hardware specs. While AMD is staying somewhat competitive, they fail where it most counts for me: decent linux support.

    It's disheartening that I am FORCED to choose nVidia and Intel, especially when AMD has some exciting technology lined up for the future. I'd like to give my money to AMD, so maybe they can survive and get there, but it just doesn't make sense to do so.

    So, here are the motherboard options:

    1. Crossfire support (which is useless in linux)
    2. SLI support (which will let me have a GPU for rendering AND for physics)
    3. single PCIe solution (does not give desired flexibility)

    CPU will obviously have to be Intel, as per price/performance. I would go AMD, but I am not sure what their future linux plans are. The 939->AM2 swapparoo doesn't encourage me either.

    Here is the thing. I would SACRIFICE performance to support AMD, but they make it impossible for me to do so.

    If someone would at least say, yes, we plan to support crossfire in linux, I would go that route. But all I have seen is the very short: "We do not support crossfire in linux."

    You DO realize that you are GIVING away customers to nVidia. Even the much touted "There are a lot more Windows machines we have to chase dollars for" excuse ignores the fact that a great deal of linux users dual boot. These users want a solution that performs well on both platforms and influences their purchasing decisions.

    I guess that's all I have to say. I just wanted to vent some frustrations.

  • #2
    Sorry I can't help you more, other than to point out that our message is "we do not support Crossfire in Linux today", and that one of our major initiatives over the last couple of years has been moving from a separate Linux driver code base to one where most of the code was shared across all OSes.

    On the CPU side, my understanding is that AMD has worked very closely with the open source community on support for new CPU features, and if anything that commitment is growing not shrinking. We don't talk about it much because AFAIK we've been doing it for years and don't plan to change.
    Last edited by bridgman; 06-06-2008, 04:15 AM.

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    • #3
      Well only Intel/AMD boards can use CF and Nvidia boards SLI. Informer there must have been (hacked) drivers which enabled it on every plattform. Adding an useless board vendor check is nothing but stupid - the dual gpu variants work also on every board. Best get rid of those checks and I am sure there will be more gfx cards sold (maybe not more boards).

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      • #4
        AMD/ATi has an open source strategy, nVidia not.
        AMD/ATi drivers are getting better every month, maybe not that fast as we would like to see, but big changes need much time to be done well.

        so i expect in future to be better the AMD/ATi support for linux users, instead of nVidia.

        When it comes to performance I really can't predict future, so everyone should guess it by himself.

        What's sure is that if i was to build a new computer now, i would make 3 different choices for 3 different scopes.

        -1 For poor video performance, but great support and development quality i would choose an Intel graphic solution.

        -2 For great video performance, i think i would go for an AMD/ATi solution, since support is coming to become great (in comparison to new nVidia 9 series problems, too)

        -3 For a computational solution (for physics simulations, and math calculus), I'm not sure what I would choose. Some months ago, nVidia was the only solution (obviously no computational physicist make heavy calculation under windows). Now with AMD Stream SDK for linux, AMD made a great move, so CUDA is no longer the only solution. Maybe CUDA will be a more relaiable solution, for a while, but in future (close future)? How knows?

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        • #5
          Well maybe NV will create open 3d drivers as well, 2d driver are directly created by nvidia for serveral years.

          Of course the oss drivers for ATI are improving nicely for new cards, the old errors still remain the same, also fglrx does not fix the modeline bug (at least not with etch) which is there for serveral years and it does not render pointsprites since new codebase. I reported those bugs here very often and nothing was fixed, so I would not say that fglrx is improving in any way.

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          • #6
            i wanted to join here and add my opinion as well.

            i am giving my Lenovo T60 with ATI to my mother, and my next laptop is going to have Nvidia, just like all my desktops.

            kinda got tired on waiting and praying on ATI/AMD development cycle and release process. I have had this laptop for 1 year and a half, and only was able to truly enjoy full 3d functionally for 4 months, when all my desktops with nvidia playing and delivering what i expect from them.

            thanks to all guys!

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            • #7
              so i think you didn't read about the problems nVidia users are experiencing with the last 9 series?
              Or even with the lates drivers!? http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10201

              i don't think nVidia bleeding edge solutions are going better than ATi in this precise moment..

              we will see in future...

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              • #8
                my point was based on my 3 years experience using Nvidia and ATI.

                let me put it this way.. they all SUCK in terms of linux support. however Nvidia SUCK much less than ATI at this point.

                and truthfully speaking using computers since 1993... AMT/ATI never worked well for me.

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                • #9
                  Actually AMD is approaching parity with NVIDIA drivers. I'd say in a year or less, that ati open-source drivers will be able to do everything "out-of-the-box" that NVDIA closed-source drivers can do. It's not quite there yet, but with r600 3d docs coming, and r500 3d support being stabilized now, they're doing pretty darn well.

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                  • #10
                    Well then show me a working OSS driver with GLSL support.

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                    • #11
                      Well, I have been using a R580 since it came out more than 2 years ago and therefore I know about the state of fglrx very well. It is improving every month, but the improvements are getting bigger and faster every month. To be honest, I don't think Crossfire support is far away now, even if I can't proof anything, just guess. Furthermore, the performance of AMD really is not all that bad. You can get a fast Phenom X4 9850 BE for about 165€ here in Germany, with the Phenom X4 9550 avaible at about 135€. The upcoming RV770 will be the best single GPU graphic cards avaible (don't tell me about nVidia GT200... price, heat, power consumption!).

                      What about waiting 1-3 more months and have a look at what improvements the fglrx will make in only that time?

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                      • #12
                        Don't worry guys, I think everything will be fine for R1000

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by d2kx View Post
                          Well, I have been using a R580 since it came out more than 2 years ago and therefore I know about the state of fglrx very well. It is improving every month, but the improvements are getting bigger and faster every month. To be honest, I don't think Crossfire support is far away now, even if I can't proof anything, just guess. Furthermore, the performance of AMD really is not all that bad. You can get a fast Phenom X4 9850 BE for about 165€ here in Germany, with the Phenom X4 9550 avaible at about 135€. The upcoming RV770 will be the best single GPU graphic cards avaible (don't tell me about nVidia GT200... price, heat, power consumption!).

                          What about waiting 1-3 more months and have a look at what improvements the fglrx will make in only that time?
                          Yes... after how many years of fglrx, does it even detect and set resolution properly?

                          im sorry, but as far as what i can see, fglrx is an abysmal failure and disgrace. I full well realize that resolution detection isnt really a crucial feature as for most people here, but its something so basic that it better damn work. Or at the very least, if it cannot properly detect, it should fall back to something sensible, instead of 1680x1050... Also, the stuff like xvideo tearing and stuff, is really becoming quite tiresome, this stuff should just work, no excuses, just work, the fact that it doesent is simply so distasteful that there exists no words for it.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Redeeman View Post
                            Yes... after how many years of fglrx, does it even detect and set resolution properly?

                            im sorry, but as far as what i can see, fglrx is an abysmal failure and disgrace. I full well realize that resolution detection isnt really a crucial feature as for most people here, but its something so basic that it better damn work. Or at the very least, if it cannot properly detect, it should fall back to something sensible, instead of 1680x1050... Also, the stuff like xvideo tearing and stuff, is really becoming quite tiresome, this stuff should just work, no excuses, just work, the fact that it doesent is simply so distasteful that there exists no words for it.
                            Since R500 support was introduced with fglrx 8.25.8, I've had a lot of problems. Setting the correct resolution was not one of them. Speaking of today, I do not have *any* problems with latest fglrx drivers. Everything works.

                            #edit: Maybe interesting: Auto-overclock for AMD Phenom Black Editions coming:

                            http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/cont...37816-135.html
                            Last edited by d2kx; 06-06-2008, 01:37 PM.

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                            • #15
                              The only good things I've seen from this driver recently are:
                              1) They removed the annoying bottom corner corruption/mouse corruption
                              2) Massive 3d upgrade
                              3) AIGLX support (and for the record, compiz still runs better on my roommate's laptop, whose card is at least 2 times weaker than mine.

                              Things I still lack:

                              1) Proper resolution/refresh rate detection
                              2) Video
                              3) Well, I haven't done big tests or something, but still, a game like Postal 2 just doesn't run very smoothly, rather jumpy.
                              4) Faster 2d, anyone?
                              5) To outperform my roommate's compiz results.

                              So... they've been doing some good things. As far as what I lack -- can't really tell if they'll better anything.

                              But still, I like you, John

                              Anyways, last night I even had dreams about AMD/ATi and graphics cards. This is how they're underneath my skin

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