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  • Originally posted by Redeeman View Post
    this is debian stable, kernel 2.6.25 (which i btw had to modify to export yet another symbol - i wonder if AMD even tested it?!), with xorg from debian testing, i believe its server 1.4, from xorg 7.3
    Due to the dependencies of Xorg, your installation is a mix between debian stable and debian testing. In other word, half your system is made of recent packages, the other half is made of one year old packages.

    I'm not really surprised that you have stability problems. You should upgrade your whole system to testing.

    I use flgrx on debian unstable and it mostly works (although I do not use much 3D, only video)

    HTH

    Comment


    • Originally posted by domi View Post
      I use flgrx on debian unstable and it mostly works (although I do not use much 3D, only video)

      HTH
      How did you install it? What is your kernel?

      Comment


      • I use fglrx with the Debian/sid 2.6.25-2-amd64 kernel, no problems.

        What problems do you get, sundown?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by d2kx View Post
          I use fglrx with the Debian/sid 2.6.25-2-amd64 kernel, no problems.

          What problems do you get, sundown?
          I dunno, I can't load the module. But it's ok, I have given up on testing in doing various crazy stuff to make it work. I'll try next month

          Comment


          • Originally posted by sundown View Post
            How did you install it? What is your kernel?
            I'm lazy and I usually install flgrx with the Debian packages from non-free section.

            I'm still waiting for the packages for 8.05.

            The kernel I use currently is 2.6.24. As soon as the new fglrx packages are ready, I'll upgrade to 2.6.25

            HTH

            Comment


            • Originally posted by domi View Post
              Due to the dependencies of Xorg, your installation is a mix between debian stable and debian testing. In other word, half your system is made of recent packages, the other half is made of one year old packages.

              I'm not really surprised that you have stability problems. You should upgrade your whole system to testing.

              I use flgrx on debian unstable and it mostly works (although I do not use much 3D, only video)

              HTH
              nonsense, i have all the dependencies for xorg, and it works perfect, it is the fglrx driver which does NOT work.. if i for instance smash in an nvidia 6600gt, it works fine with this xorg.. i do not see why the version of lots of base level packages would influence xorg..

              and this issue, btw, i have heard other people having it on suse aswell..

              Comment


              • Originally posted by sundown View Post
                You should be testing it just because of pure coolness, Debian that is
                No question about the "cool" part; developers at other distros wear Debian t-shirts to work

                In general, though, fglrx is aimed primarily at the distros more likely to appear in a commercial or consumer environment, and the open source drivers are aimed at the faster-moving "upstream" distros.

                Comment


                • Hi all.

                  I update fglrx driver and i have many problem from 2D.
                  I use Archlinux with kernel 2.6.25 and xorg-server 1.4.0.90.

                  I use xfce4.

                  Moving windows is very lag.

                  This my section device in my xorg.conf

                  Section "Device"
                  Identifier "aticonfig-Device[0]"
                  Driver "fglrx"
                  Option "VideoOverlay" "on"
                  Option "OpenGLOverlay" "off"
                  Option "XAANoOffscreenPixmaps" "true"
                  Option "TexturedVideo" "on"
                  Option "Textured2D" "on"
                  Option "TexturedXRender" "off"
                  Option "BackingStore" "on"
                  Option "RenderAccel" "true"
                  Option "PseudoColorVisuals" "off"
                  Option "UseFastTLS" "1"
                  EndSection

                  3d and XV work.

                  thanks

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    No question about the "cool" part; developers at other distros wear Debian t-shirts to work

                    In general, though, fglrx is aimed primarily at the distros more likely to appear in a commercial or consumer environment, and the open source drivers are aimed at the faster-moving "upstream" distros.
                    well... as i see it, i cannot use 3d on my hardware with the free drivers?

                    besides, i believe i have roughly the same xorg in this setup as ubuntu..

                    Comment


                    • If you're running HD2xxx the open drivers don't have 3D support yet, but that's next on the list.

                      re: debian vs ubuntu, I got the sense that a lot of your concerns were kernel related more than xorg-related, but I'm going from memory on that.

                      Comment


                      • i dont believe its kernel related, it is userspace definetly, the kernel problem was merely that i had to activate legacy crap, plus the fact that i had to manually modify the x86_64 code to export a symbol on 2.6.25 - meaning amd obviously has not tested this release on 2.6.25 x86_64.

                        i dont have concerns per se, i have PROBLEMS, aka, the thing isnt working.

                        It is a HD3450, and well.. it starts my screen in unusable resolution (which then when i kill X, corrupts my linux console). Every application segfaults at ~exit time. glxinfo lists no dri. opengl with world of warcraft is COMPLETELY broken, doesent evne start, with dx mode, i get ~1-3 fps at the login screen, this is speeds of mesa.. neverball however runs as it should with accelerated graphics, but who knows, maybe mesa is doing this aswell?

                        i am _100%_ certain i have installed properly, this is simply buggy driver..

                        bridgman:
                        we have argued before, but im not gonna continue that here, i have 1 simple question, these issues i have, are these something that can be correctly in the extremely near future, or should i just forget about it and smash the card away in a server or something? (i did kindof expect to have to do this, i just wanted to give AMD a chance to proove it could let me use their hardware)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                          Yeah, I think I get the message
                          Yeah sorry, I really was flabbergasted.
                          Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                          Serious question though; if most of your Linux sales were in the commercial workstation market, and if most of those customers ran SLED and RHEL, and if the distro most used by the rest of your customers (in the consumer market) was Ubuntu...

                          ... what would you test on ? Do you think testing on Debian would make more users happy than testing on Ubuntu, for example ?
                          I think possibly, yes. Maybe I'm mistaken, but wouldn't a majority of the testing done on Debian be applicable to Ubuntu as well? I know Canonical makes a lot of changes but they still get all(nearly all?) their packages from sid, and most of Canonical's changes eventually make it back into Debian. And of course there are more distros based on Debian than just Ubuntu - but there's also starting to be a few distros based on Ubuntu now too. I guess I'd be a lot more happy about the situation if you tested on at least one Debian-based distro. If that was Ubuntu I expect it would still be pretty relevant to Debian. IDK though, someone who knows more about the specific differences between Ubuntu and Debian could probably better estimate the value to Debian users of testing on Ubuntu, and vice versa. But like I said, I think it's pretty imperative that AMD is testing on at least one Debian-based distro.

                          Unless Asus and their disappearing-from-the-M3A-bios-memory-remap-option is to blame for my issues, it now seems pretty clear that my HD3650 has been gathering dust for months because AMD has completely ignored an entire, major category of Linux distribution. For example, the bug in authatieventsd.sh where it doesn't point to /var/run/xauth - that's been known since at least 8-3, but with both 8-4 and 8-5 I had to manually patch it. If AMD was testing on a Debian(-based) system, this likely never would have been a bug to begin with (I assume).


                          Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                          if most of your Linux sales were in the commercial workstation market, and if most of those customers ran SLED and RHEL...
                          My problem with this statement is this - what about the individual customers who also spend their hard earned cash on your products? Certainly none of us spend in one go what the corporations running SLED and Red Hat do, but we are still your customers, despite the fact that we are an extremely difficult bunch to quanitfy*.

                          It seems to me that Red Hat, SUSE and Debian are the 3 main distros from which the majority of other distros are based. Only testing on 2 out of 3 just doesn't make any sense to me, regardless of what the majority of corporate customers use. It's like a 2-legged tripod... or something, I'm obviously not very good with analogies.

                          Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                          In general, though, fglrx is aimed primarily at the distros more likely to appear in a commercial or consumer environment, and the open source drivers are aimed at the faster-moving "upstream" distros.
                          I have problems with that as well. I absolutely, wholeheartedly, unequivocally support your efforts releasing docs and fostering the open drivers - that's the main reason I bought an ATI card I didn't actually require. However until such a time as either of these drivers has something resembling feature parity (notwithstanding the DRM features [not the Direct Rendering Manager] which are likely to remain fglrx-only), fglrx should be aimed at anyone who has purchased your hardware(any which fglrx supports) with the intention of using it on Linux. Anyone with an R600 card and problems with fglrx is bascially S.O.L. right now. It would seem doubly so if they use a Debian-based distro.


                          ---
                          I'm tempted to offer up the spare M3A motherboard (AMD770/SB600) I have if it might expedite getting a Debian-based test box up and running (and hopefully finding my issue's remedy). I don't have any of the other necessary parts for a system spare though... If your testing systems are somewhere other than Markham though I don't think it'll happen.

                          *I had an idea while writing this post, it's something that would require quite a bit of work though I expect. Anyway here it is: Inside the boxes of ATI cards (channel partners would have to participate also) there could be a slip of paper asking "Do you intend to use this video card under a Linux-based operating system? If so please go to www.amd.com/linuxcounter and let us know to help us make our Linux software as excellent as it can be." At the website would be a short form where customers could enter the product they bought and its serial number(so as to prevent abuse), and the distribution they use. This could help AMD generate some hard data on who's using what and in what numbers. The card-in-the-box isn't strictly necessary either, as long as people know about the site and to submit their info. Anyway, just an idea.


                          I hope my frustration hasn't given the wrong impression. Despite it, I'm still a big supporter of AMD (always have been) and the work you cats are doing to provide an open driver, and the interaction/support you, specifically, provide here, bridgman. From what I've seen at nvnews.net while looking for solutions to the less-major issues I have with my Nvidia card, the Nvidia staff there don't do much but make excuses, and sow misinformation. Apart from taking bug reports that is (they're not all bad I guess). Dealing with the same issue driver after driver and reading about many other people doing the same with other issues is a recipe for aggravation though. Anyhow, I think I've posted more than enough here, thanks for being here to hear what we have to say bridgman, I'd be a lot more frustrated were it not for your insights into what goes on behind the scenes.

                          edit: sorry for rambling a lot.
                          Last edited by oblivious_maximus; 05-30-2008, 10:25 PM.

                          Comment


                          • the nvidia drivers works equally well in all distributions.. in other words, is AMD incapable of atleast matching nvidias level of software (damn, never thought id have this word in an nvidia sentence) quality?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Redeeman View Post
                              It is a HD3450, and well.. it starts my screen in unusable resolution (which then when i kill X, corrupts my linux console).
                              This sounds odd. Is there a Bugzilla ticket open for this, with log ? Is this specific to 8.5 or did it happen with previous releases as well ?

                              Originally posted by Redeeman View Post
                              Every application segfaults at ~exit time.
                              Is this under Wine/Cedega/whatever or native ? Any other info we could use to understand what is happening ?

                              Originally posted by Redeeman View Post
                              glxinfo lists no dri.
                              OK, something is definitely installed wrong then. Can you paste a log somewhere, ideally Bugzilla ?

                              Originally posted by Redeeman View Post
                              opengl with world of warcraft is COMPLETELY broken, doesent evne start, with dx mode, i get ~1-3 fps at the login screen, this is speeds of mesa.. neverball however runs as it should with accelerated graphics, but who knows, maybe mesa is doing this aswell?
                              Yeah, until you get DRI=yes it's not worth going any further.

                              Originally posted by Redeeman View Post
                              i am _100%_ certain i have installed properly, this is simply buggy driver..
                              I'm sure you followed the proper steps, but it doesn't sound like the installation is right for your specific system. If you are running WOW over Wine (are you ?) on Debian or Ubuntu there seem to be strong recommendations for installing via Envy. Not sure if it actually sets something different or is just less likely to fsck up, but it seems to be a common recommendation.

                              EDIT -- there also seem to be some horror stories associated with Envy, so not sure who to believe here

                              I remember hearing that there was a last minute fix for either the Ubuntu or Debian packaging scripts which didn't quite make the release; not sure what the details are but will try to find out.

                              Originally posted by Redeeman View Post
                              bridgman: we have argued before, but im not gonna continue that here,
                              Have we actually argued about anything other than DRM ? DRM is like politics, you're expected to argue about it

                              Originally posted by Redeeman View Post
                              i have 1 simple question, these issues i have, are these something that can be correctly in the extremely near future, or should i just forget about it and smash the card away in a server or something? (i did kindof expect to have to do this, i just wanted to give AMD a chance to proove it could let me use their hardware)
                              The problems I understand don't happen on other systems with the same card and driver, but they are happening on your system, so we need to understand how to reproduce them in house so we can sic a developer on them.
                              Last edited by bridgman; 05-30-2008, 10:30 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Just tried this driver on my fresh Gentoo-install: it changes my screen into a fireworks display at X.org startup, stopping at some fire-red which makes you think the device is completely demolished like when the chip's burned.

                                The opensourcedriver manages 2D and XVideo fine, but 3D is limited to glxgears or it'll bring down the system.

                                Xpress 200M owners are presumable sentenced to hell for the rest of the time they use their laptops.

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