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  • #31
    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
    ...like embedded (your DRM-infested DVD player probably runs Linux internallY) often have no choice but to use closed drivers because their market requires DRM.
    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
    One of the challenges has always been that different people have very different views of what Linux is about. What do you think it is ?
    I don't think that it is this or that. I think that linux is what we all make it to.

    Following Ubuntu it could become a replacement for windows.

    Personally i am following gentoo. "its about configuration"
    I wonder if linux can become all of this in one or if there will be a splitt in the future... we will see.

    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
    I didn't fully understand this. Am I "the bridge" here, or are you talking about Phoronix moderators and other forum members ?
    Well i thought that it does fit you nick - maybe even that is not coincidence

    But to be sure we dont know who is the bridge. But your definitely a part of it and you should know best who the bridge is.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by bridgman View Post
      Porter, I just noticed that I mixed your original post up with cleric's. Forget everything I said about unaccelerated Xv interfaces -- that was from Cleric's question.

      Cleric, my mistake. It was you asking about the unaccelerated Xv interface not Porter. Can you fill me in on how that would help vs. just using X11 ?

      Thanks,
      John
      Well as someone else already noted some applications just need xv to work. There are some video players that needs it because they lack opengl support. etc.


      Martin

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      • #33
        Originally posted by bridgman View Post
        (deleted evidence of my mixing up cleric's & Porter's posts

        The fglrx driver already has accelerated Xv using TexturedVideo on 5xx and up and VideoOverlay for the older ASICs which had video processing built into the overlay block. Right now there is tearing on the TexturedVideo implementation (a diagonal line), but you should see improvements there soon. X11 is a good option on the radeonhd driver today but Xv is a better choice on fglrx.
        Regarding the "soon":

        monthly releases are fine but short feature driven releases are better. really. yes i am a software developer.

        Try to set your targets from 2-6 weeks and everything will be fine. Don't try to program feature xxx in the next 4 weeks. it wont work and creates a lot of extra work. tested thousands of times with small and big teams

        Try to develop agile without falling into chaos

        martin

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        • #34
          I agree competely. We don't try to force feature development into fixed windows -- development happens in a continuous mainline. Projects to add features can start and end in the middle of a release window. Some times we give you feature releases off the mainline -- other times you get a maintenance release off a branch, depending on what we're trying to accomplish at the time.

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          • #35
            Yeah i know that r300 is doing pretty well, but as far as i understand its most certainly not thanks to ati/amd..

            when will the 3d docs come?

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Redeeman View Post
              Yeah i know that r300 is doing pretty well, but as far as i understand its most certainly not thanks to ati/amd..

              when will the 3d docs come?
              Actually, fglrx seems to work quite well on my r300 hardware =)

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              • #37
                Actually, fglrx (8.02) seems to work quite well on my R580+.

                I'm a little surprised, too, but I'll take it.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by cleric View Post

                  It does and it will. As far as i know nearly all linux users use nvidia cards. change that. but to do so you need nice drivers
                  I think that Bridgeman's point referred to the whole Linux market, including Nvidia, Intel and ATI.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by domi View Post
                    I think that Bridgeman's point referred to the whole Linux market, including Nvidia, Intel and ATI.
                    That doesnt change the fact that the market wont grow without good drivers because possible users are scared away cause of driver problems.

                    Linux _could_ have a 10x grow rate if there where good driver support through all hw products. GFX driver support is one of the big threads.

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                    • #40
                      For us, one of the big reasons for supporting open source development was to make it easier for distros to provide a good (non-scary) out of box experience for new users.

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                      • #41
                        besides it must be difficult to provide blobs for operating system where 99% of software can be rebuilt from source agains wide range of libraries and toolchains. :]

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by yoshi314 View Post
                          besides it must be difficult to provide blobs for operating system where 99% of software can be rebuilt from source agains wide range of libraries and toolchains. :]
                          Its pretty easy... just release the source of the blob

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                            I think you've pretty much got it. The main point is that it takes a lot of investment to make a fully featured, high performance workstation driver (including a lot of optimization work) and no company feels like giving that investment away and making things easier for competitors.
                            Heh... If only you could get them to get out of the stone age on their crufty rendering code... >:-)

                            The biggest question would be if one could arrange a wedge slot for an immediate mode accelerator in an open source driver where there's something that does a hit-or-miss job of things but is completely open and then the full-on accelerator piece you guys have in hand?

                            I'll be honest- I want good out of the box performance. Even for workstation work (which I would be doing in some cases with my stuff I do...); but right now, NOBODY gives me that. OEMs that ship with the binary-only drivers take a chance on bringing a GPL violation suit on top of their heads (You can't ship with the binaries installed. Nobody does anything other than grumble about NVidia's driver situation because you're installing them after installation- you're not distributing a system with the stuff that way. If you did, you'd have to be able to provide the source code to the NVidia drivers to comply with the terms of the license...). So, if you could give everyone the great out of box experience, barring peak performance on immediate mode apps, and then allow someone to download or to pull off an installation CD the immediate mode accelerator module as a snap-on... Well, you'd win out over pretty much everyone else at that point.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                              For us, one of the big reasons for supporting open source development was to make it easier for distros to provide a good (non-scary) out of box experience for new users.
                              And, for that: THANK YOU.

                              For our side of the equation, I think we're just frustrated that it's moving slower than we think it needs to be to help your position- and OURS. Combine this with odd sharp edges either real or perceived on both sides...

                              I think if you keep talking with us we might find some better answers for things like the need to keep TIMMO closed up, than keeping a whole driver closed. Done right, you can have all of what you're needing and we can all have some of the best drivers for some of the best of breed silicon.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                diagnosis diagonal

                                Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                                Right now there is tearing on the TexturedVideo implementation (a diagonal line), but you should see improvements there soon.
                                Muchas gracias, Bridgman. That is all I ever wanted to hear regarding fglrx. (Of course, how soon is soon? I am itching to "liberate" my Windows partition! )

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