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  • No, I don't have any "hard" statistics, not that these are very hard to begin with, but I was trying to make two points:

    a) Stats here are very flawed, because the process they are using is flawed. You want proof, look at the huge difference in the numbers. Also, add this random statistic as well to the mix: http://www.osnews.com/story/21035/Ba...tor_than_Apple

    That article is noted in several different places other than that website. So, Microsoft themselves told their investors that. It all comes down to who you want to trust. Do you want to trust Microsoft and a bunch of U.S.-biased web hit counters?

    b) As just noted, those are U.S. hit counters. If you've been paying attention to the news, and using your brain at the same time, other countries have higher percentages that use Linux. Why do I think that?

    In developing countries, computer users are not subject to the "fear of change" effect stunting adoption, seeing as to how they're changing from not using computers to using them.

    Other countries have had very large public Linux roll-outs, while here in the U.S. they are small where and when they are able to actually survive Microsoft's onslaught of lawyers and lobbyists.

    Some other countries have much healthier Linux pre-installed sales on computers than the U.S. does.

    Again, the U.S. is Microsoft's home turf, and anyone who listens to the news a lot and knows about all the things that Microsoft is involved in knows fully well their power and influence and how great it is. MSNBC, for starters...but the point is that sales in the U.S. is incredibly hard because of them and other factors, so you can't just trust U.S. web hit counters. Only now are things slowly starting to open up more in part thanks to consumer's acceptance of different and new operating systems on devices like phones/MIDs and soon hopefully netbooks.

    If the U.S. government recognized that forcing the sale of Windows on computers by removing consumer's choice to not buy it to get it cheaper was anti-competitive which it of course is, sales would be very different. But alas, now I'm complaining, and that of course doesn't effect current Linux use, whatever that might be.

    Comment


    • Personally, I dont care about microsoft.
      I, long time MS user, have switched to linux and from the first moment I love this OS!
      Currently linux, as an Operating System, as a base for software lacks native 3D acceleration support.

      Because setting up closed-source drivers is hard, produces security risks and goes in contrast to how system software(and actually almost all software) is handled on this system, only professionals(which get it installed and supported anyway, and most time its other UNIXes, not linux) and enthusiasts consider linux as graphically capable system.

      I think only AMD does it the right way and openness is the future.

      Comment


      • I sign what author of the first post has said.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
          Currently linux, as an Operating System, as a base for software lacks native 3D acceleration support.
          Well, if AMD or nVidia don't release drivers for their cards for Windows, it will to lack 'native' (whatever that means to you) support for 3D acceleration.

          Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
          Because setting up closed-source drivers is hard
          sudo ./ati-driver-installer-9-8-x86.x86_64.run ?

          Installing drivers and software IS part of using an operating system. I'm sorry but if your idea of using an operating system is clicking on bright, 3d, animated buttons that take you to mail, take you to tweeter, take you to retarded clips on youtube, please do yourself a favor and buy a Mac.

          It's like saying that cars are badly designed because only 'professionals' and 'enthusiasts' (?) can change tires, otherwise, for the regular user who only sees the boxes means to get faster somewhere, it is too complicated. Changing you tires isn't complicated. You don't have to graduate with a diploma in automotive engineering to do it. You are just a lazy sob. And, flying spaghetti monster forbid you should learn a teeny-ini bit about how the tool in front of you works. Then we'd have a problem. We'd have informed consumers making informed choices...

          15 years ago anybody who owned a car could change his/her own tires. So, identical people with less resources (you couldn't read on wikipedia how to change a tire, or such) apparently were more informed and apt to act on their own.

          If you consider installing a blob in linux complicated, then linux isn't for you. You need some sort of "internet entertainment device" with one bright button for each of your daily leisure and entertainment activities ( idiotic cat videos on youtube, see what Bob is doing right now on tweeter, listen to DRM music ) that is factory set up and locked to do all these things for people too comfortable and ignorant to read a piss poor book. This is what Apple computers are for. You don't have to think, just be yourself.

          Linux and FOSS grew into what they are today because the community that made it and uses it actively and shapes what it is, is made out of people who GIVE A F*** and don't want just a cheap (free) glittering crap to listen all day long to music, 24, desperate housewives and the plethora of canihascheeseburger crap. For 99% of what most of you do, you don't need Linux, or Windows or OSX for that matter, you need a smartphone with a big screen and a kb/mouse.

          For the rest of us who care, who actively work on the foss ecosystem, do us a favor and go back to windows or switch to mac.

          We already have the hideous example of Compiz, a piece of shit 50-cent, useless, pimp my desktop, which create a lot of problem for the non 'professionals' ( by the way, in this field, a professional is someone with a computer science degree, keep that in mind when talking about using an operating system ). The only reason Compiz exists, is because some idiots wanted to make the Linux GUIs more like Vista or Mac OS X, to show just how awesome Linux can be. This shows a larger problem of trying to make the Linux ecosystem into a pimped-up clone of Windows/MacOSX, meaning that for some, Linux must be a cheap (free) copy of windows so users can 'migrate' easily.

          This is like butchering complex analysis into some infantile crap with animations, so people to lazy and comfortable, who in the first place would have no use for it, can 'make a switch' easily from 4th grade arithmetic.

          If this is the raison d'etre for Linux, then fuck, I'm moving to BSD or Solaris.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
            Well, if AMD or nVidia don't release drivers for their cards for Windows, it will to lack 'native' (whatever that means to you) support for 3D acceleration.



            sudo ./ati-driver-installer-9-8-x86.x86_64.run ?

            Installing drivers and software IS part of using an operating system. I'm sorry but if your idea of using an operating system is clicking on bright, 3d, animated buttons that take you to mail, take you to tweeter, take you to retarded clips on youtube, please do yourself a favor and buy a Mac.

            It's like saying that cars are badly designed because only 'professionals' and 'enthusiasts' (?) can change tires, otherwise, for the regular user who only sees the boxes means to get faster somewhere, it is too complicated. Changing you tires isn't complicated. You don't have to graduate with a diploma in automotive engineering to do it. You are just a lazy sob. And, flying spaghetti monster forbid you should learn a teeny-ini bit about how the tool in front of you works. Then we'd have a problem. We'd have informed consumers making informed choices...

            15 years ago anybody who owned a car could change his/her own tires. So, identical people with less resources (you couldn't read on wikipedia how to change a tire, or such) apparently were more informed and apt to act on their own.

            If you consider installing a blob in linux complicated, then linux isn't for you. You need some sort of "internet entertainment device" with one bright button for each of your daily leisure and entertainment activities ( idiotic cat videos on youtube, see what Bob is doing right now on tweeter, listen to DRM music ) that is factory set up and locked to do all these things for people too comfortable and ignorant to read a piss poor book. This is what Apple computers are for. You don't have to think, just be yourself.

            Linux and FOSS grew into what they are today because the community that made it and uses it actively and shapes what it is, is made out of people who GIVE A F*** and don't want just a cheap (free) glittering crap to listen all day long to music, 24, desperate housewives and the plethora of canihascheeseburger crap. For 99% of what most of you do, you don't need Linux, or Windows or OSX for that matter, you need a smartphone with a big screen and a kb/mouse.

            For the rest of us who care, who actively work on the foss ecosystem, do us a favor and go back to windows or switch to mac.

            We already have the hideous example of Compiz, a piece of shit 50-cent, useless, pimp my desktop, which create a lot of problem for the non 'professionals' ( by the way, in this field, a professional is someone with a computer science degree, keep that in mind when talking about using an operating system ). The only reason Compiz exists, is because some idiots wanted to make the Linux GUIs more like Vista or Mac OS X, to show just how awesome Linux can be. This shows a larger problem of trying to make the Linux ecosystem into a pimped-up clone of Windows/MacOSX, meaning that for some, Linux must be a cheap (free) copy of windows so users can 'migrate' easily.

            This is like butchering complex analysis into some infantile crap with animations, so people to lazy and comfortable, who in the first place would have no use for it, can 'make a switch' easily from 4th grade arithmetic.

            If this is the raison d'etre for Linux, then fuck, I'm moving to BSD or Solaris.
            if you download the driver
            and then you wana install it "sudo ./ati-driver-installer-9-8-x86.x86_64.run ? "
            this will simpel do not work!!

            because of the permissions! you need to set the executive flac!


            and the opensource driver do not need this 'hack' ;-)

            you realy sould move to BSD or solaris because linux is a real good surfing station/smartphone(android)

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
              if you download the driver
              and then you wana install it "sudo ./ati-driver-installer-9-8-x86.x86_64.run ? "
              this will simpel do not work!!

              because of the permissions! you need to set the executive flac!


              and the opensource driver do not need this 'hack' ;-)

              you realy sould move to BSD or solaris because linux is a real good surfing station/smartphone(android)
              Yes, you need to understand what access permissions ARE. That is part of using the operating system. Otherwise you are an utter ignorant who just wants to surf the net.

              Do you even know, on a primitive level what you are talking about?
              Why do you want an "open source" anything if you do not know even a piss-poor primitive concept like access rights, a concept VITAL to any user of the operating system. How are you suppose to keep your operating system secure if you don't know and don't give a fuck about the TOOL you want to use?

              Setting permissions for executable rights on a binary file isn't a hack. It is a hack to you, an utter ignorant. Btw, am I talking to some stupid 12yo, by any chance ?

              If file access permissions are too complicated for you too grasp, or you are too lazy to read a book, go back to win/mac. Its not going to be more secure if you don't know and don't care about access rights to vital system components. Linux is more secure because its users aren't utter ignorants.

              Go back and tweet, listen to Lady Gaga and play ARMA2, kid. After you pick up a few books and you actually know what you are talking about, maybe then we can have a civilized conversation.

              Comment


              • Chill pill here folks.
                So I'll see if I can put in some calmer tones. I personally think that much work is being made to make linux more "user friendly" and simpler for the average person to use. This is good to more wide-spread linux adoption, which in turn can help with more development, features, etc; it's generally a good thing.
                On the other hand, linux grew from professional use. It's roots are there, and it is well known for being open and letting the user do whatever they wish. Simplifying things too much has the side effect of removing much of that choice, and then what's the point of things? It's also the wide range of choice which makes linux ideal for handheld/embedded/whatever devices.
                I use linux for the freedom it offers. Sure, I use the proprietary drivers from AMD, but as a whole I can customise and use the system how I want - not how some company dictates I should use it.

                Comment


                • Always give the user enough rope. And then some, just in case.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    Well, if AMD or nVidia don't release drivers for their cards for Windows, it will to lack 'native' (whatever that means to you) support for 3D acceleration.
                    Hallelujah to that!!! That would make my day!
                    I, the user of DOS5.0@286-16, DOS6.0@486sx-33, DOS6.22/Windows3.11@486sx-33, Windows95@am5x133, Windows98@K5-150, WindowsME@K6-2-500, WindowsXP@Duron800,Athlon1.2,Athlon2500+ DO NOT CARE ABOUT WINDOWS. You know why? Because it is the BIGGEST crap ever found on this planet! Yes, it is!! And now this crap bashes open standards! Did I mention the amount of software I had to buy in this years??? I had done MUCH more better thing, if I had donated this to authors instead of "buying product". Information is NOT a product, human work is a product!


                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    sudo ./ati-driver-installer-9-8-x86.x86_64.run ?
                    And what glibc, gcc, xorg versions should I supply?? Should I throw out my old card, because AMD has no corporate customers to pay for it? Or should I use Nvidia, just what I had been forced to do, to have WINE(which is same as supporting winblows)??

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    Installing drivers and software IS part of using an operating system.
                    You are talking about WRONG OS here, its NOT! Even on Gentoo, I just add what I wish to world and go drink coffee for 5 mins and start browsing while the rest of my system is emerged!

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    I'm sorry but if your idea of using an operating system is clicking on bright, 3d, animated buttons that take you to mail, take you to tweeter, take you to retarded clips on youtube, please do yourself a favor and buy a Mac.
                    Go discuss with Mr. Torvalds what a "distribution" stands for! I guess you are trolling from tty on ipod! My idea of using an operating system is for operating system to allow me to do whatever I want and not getting in the way. And if you prefer to sit in 320x200 tty for the rest of your life - its your choice, not mine.

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    It's like saying that cars are badly designed because only 'professionals' and 'enthusiasts' (?) can change tires, otherwise, for the regular user who only sees the boxes means to get faster somewhere, it is too complicated. Changing you tires isn't complicated. You don't have to graduate with a diploma in automotive engineering to do it.
                    Why wont you go buy russian Lada Kalina or Chery Amulet? I assume you are some mega-kluge teenager, who uses tty-only slackware on ipod?

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    You are just a lazy sob.
                    Post again and I will request root to suspend your account, so you learn to express yourself politely. Teenager?

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    And, flying spaghetti monster forbid you should learn a teeny-ini bit about how the tool in front of you works.
                    Code:
                    Linux ghost 2.6.31-gentoo-r6 #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Mar 11 00:00:49 CET 2010 x86_64 Pentium(R) Dual-Core CPU E5300 @ 2.60GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
                    Code:
                    emerge --info|grep Portage
                    Portage 2.1.7.17 (default/linux/amd64/10.0, gcc-4.3.4, glibc-2.10.1-r1, 2.6.31-gentoo-r6 x86_64)
                    You FAIL.

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    We'd have informed consumers making informed choices...
                    Im human, I take and give back. If you are consumer, its your problem.

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    15 years ago anybody who owned a car could change his/her own tires.
                    You trying to tell me, you had first version of Linux kernel? Or trying to BS me into believing DOS was usable without config.sys, and windows 95 had no viruses and FAT troubles?

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    So, identical people with less resources (you couldn't read on wikipedia how to change a tire, or such) apparently were more informed and apt to act on their own.
                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    If you consider installing a blob in linux complicated, then linux isn't for you.
                    Do me a favor, ask 95% of kernel-devs, including Linus to leave.

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    You need some sort of "internet entertainment device" with one bright button for each of your daily leisure and entertainment activities ( idiotic cat videos on youtube, see what Bob is doing right now on tweeter, listen to DRM music ) that is factory set up and locked to do all these things for people too comfortable and ignorant to read a piss poor book. This is what Apple computers are for. You don't have to think, just be yourself.
                    Heavy weed smoker? Give it up, its bad for your health!

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    Linux and FOSS grew into what they are today because the community that made it and uses it actively and shapes what it is, is made out of people who GIVE A F*** and don't want just a cheap (free) glittering crap to listen all day long to music, 24, desperate housewives and the plethora of canihascheeseburger crap.
                    Now, go to FSF and tell them their crosscompiler sucks.

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    For 99% of what most of you do, you don't need Linux, or Windows or OSX for that matter, you need a smartphone with a big screen and a kb/mouse.
                    You are welcome to send me one for free. Assuming it has OpenGL4.0 support and does 2-4 Gigaflops.

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    For the rest of us who care, who actively work on the foss ecosystem, do us a favor and go back to windows or switch to mac.
                    What have you done for FOSS? Played Command and Conquer all day?
                    You actively work on SUPPORTING BINARY BLOBS, go windows yourself.

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    We already have the hideous example of Compiz, a piece of shit 50-cent, useless, pimp my desktop, which create a lot of problem for the non 'professionals' ( by the way, in this field, a professional is someone with a computer science degree, keep that in mind when talking about using an operating system ).
                    Yeah right, now compiz guys suck because it isnt your taste.
                    They suck, because they have attracted several millions of people to linux and created first 3D desktop for desktop computers. Know what? Smoke LESS. Now compositing is taken even to Openbox, and like everything in Linux - if you dont want it, you dont install it.

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    The only reason Compiz exists, is because some idiots wanted to make the Linux GUIs more like Vista or Mac OS X, to show just how awesome Linux can be. This shows a larger problem of trying to make the Linux ecosystem into a pimped-up clone of Windows/MacOSX, meaning that for some, Linux must be a cheap (free) copy of windows so users can 'migrate' easily.
                    Have fun with your 90x100 ipod! I assume you never knew of such thing as window plugins, and that compiz is solely window manager?

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    This is like butchering complex analysis into some infantile crap with animations, so people to lazy and comfortable, who in the first place would have no use for it, can 'make a switch' easily from 4th grade arithmetic.
                    http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reports/7035/1/
                    Yes, very lazy.

                    Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                    If this is the raison d'etre for Linux, then fuck, I'm moving to BSD or Solaris.
                    Do us a favor, go patch FGLRX to make it run on your ipod.

                    Comment


                    • Your post is so contrieved I won't even bother to respond to it in detail.

                      First and foremost you completely missed the (bad) car (tires) analogy and you took it a little bit too personally. The 'you' in my post isn't directed at you, it is a generic you, as in people using Linux as a free Windows and expecting a free Windows clone. English isn't nuanced enough for these things.

                      Second as much as I would like to go into a lengthy discussion, installing a driver for your kernel is part of using an operating system since you ( again, generic 'you', not you personally ) might change your graphics card, or add another or any other hardware device for which dirvers were not available in the latest kernel release available. Maybe I don't understand what you said, but there is no way to have an OS with all drivers built in.

                      I'm trolling off my Debian. Dunno why all the obsession on your part with Apple and me? do not own an Apple computer or gadget. I have one at work (an iMac and PowerMac) to test a client visualizer for Mac OS X.

                      How is the OS getting in your way if graphics card manufacturers provide sub-standard binary only drivers ? Once foss driver takes off and is stable (and good) enough to be included in mainstream kernel, there should be no problem with out of the box support for any resolution.

                      Also, you assume wrong. I am an 40 years old engineer converted to system programmer. But yes, I do like to work in console.
                      What's up with the Lada and Chery(?).

                      I work on advanced engineering and scientific simulations and visualizations. Lots of kernel drivers for 'virtual' graphics cards, lots of OpenGL, lots of OpenMP and so on. All on BSD/Linux and some proprietary UNIX variants.

                      Oh, and I get the "command and conquer" line a lot, from teenagers, especially: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnc
                      Maybe you are the one with the really narrow vocabulary.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                        Yes, you need to understand what access permissions ARE. That is part of using the operating system. Otherwise you are an utter ignorant who just wants to surf the net.

                        Do you even know, on a primitive level what you are talking about?
                        Why do you want an "open source" anything if you do not know even a piss-poor primitive concept like access rights, a concept VITAL to any user of the operating system. How are you suppose to keep your operating system secure if you don't know and don't give a fuck about the TOOL you want to use?

                        Setting permissions for executable rights on a binary file isn't a hack. It is a hack to you, an utter ignorant. Btw, am I talking to some stupid 12yo, by any chance ?

                        If file access permissions are too complicated for you too grasp, or you are too lazy to read a book, go back to win/mac. Its not going to be more secure if you don't know and don't care about access rights to vital system components. Linux is more secure because its users aren't utter ignorants.

                        Go back and tweet, listen to Lady Gaga and play ARMA2, kid. After you pick up a few books and you actually know what you are talking about, maybe then we can have a civilized conversation.
                        you are the one how do not know the "access permissions " to install the driver because you post here wrong install examples!

                        i know it so i post your fail to you ;-)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                          Your post is so contrieved I won't even bother to respond to it in detail.
                          Well, its called personal attack.


                          Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                          First and foremost you completely missed the (bad) car (tires) analogy and you took it a little bit too personally. The 'you' in my post isn't directed at you, it is a generic you, as in people using Linux as a free Windows and expecting a free Windows clone. English isn't nuanced enough for these things.
                          What? I was expressing my thoughts that opensource 3D stack, and opensource drivers in kernel is best thing for linux, and company doing it should be honoured.
                          When I get a shower of "sob" and "windows user".
                          On the background of ATI broadening opensource support and Nvidia removing lastest pieces of it, I think I have made my point of view clear, why I prefer ATI now(you can read my opinion here http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...00&postcount=4)

                          Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                          Second as much as I would like to go into a lengthy discussion, installing a driver for your kernel is part of using an operating system since you ( again, generic 'you', not you personally ) might change your graphics card, or add another or any other hardware device for which dirvers were not available in the latest kernel release available. Maybe I don't understand what you said, but there is no way to have an OS with all drivers built in.
                          Udev and linux kernel already do this. All my hardware running out-of-the-box. Linux' strong point is hardware drivers loaded and preconfigured automatically on demand, which it already does.

                          Originally posted by CNCFarraday View Post
                          I'm trolling off my Debian. Dunno why all the obsession on your part with Apple and me? do not own an Apple computer or gadget. I have one at work (an iMac and PowerMac) to test a client visualizer for Mac OS X.
                          May I remind you of this:http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showp...&postcount=139

                          Originally posted by CNCFarraday
                          I'm sorry but if your idea of using an operating system is clicking on bright, 3d, animated buttons that take you to mail, take you to tweeter, take you to retarded clips on youtube, please do yourself a favor and buy a Mac.
                          So, thats you, who enjoys clicking 3D buttons, if I follow your logic. I dont(and will never) own anything *mac. Including Big Mac. Even if surved in white colors.

                          Originally posted by CNCFarraday
                          How is the OS getting in your way if graphics card manufacturers provide sub-standard binary only drivers ? Once foss driver takes off and is stable (and good) enough to be included in mainstream kernel, there should be no problem with out of the box support for any resolution.
                          CnC was a pretty good game, in 90s, but I didnt assume 40 year old guy posting this.

                          Look, linux is an opensource system. It rolled out, because its opensource and it has all its benefits because of this.

                          Currently there is nvidia with windows driver(they call it "crossplatform") and ati which starts to do something the opensource way. If linux want to establish itself as a gaming system, it is much better with opensource drivers. Unlike windows and mac, linux is DRM and limitation free. Unlike BSD, it is not stolen from. And you should really listen to OpenBSD Blob Song if you really using BSD. Any blob in source-based system puts it at serious risk.

                          Contra your opinion, Id say, if you like blobs, stay on mac, with mac hardware and mac love letter from steve etc etc bb!

                          Comment


                          • Cheese Man, look you got it all wrong. I mean, literally.

                            You didn't understand anything I said. First, some of the 'offensive' stuff wasn't aimed at you, but at the other guy for whom changing access rights on a binary is a 'hack'. Maybe I didn't make myself clear, maybe you got the Angy Internet Man syndrome after reading the first sentences and started posting without really reading what I said.

                            The idea is you are totally off the road. For example, Mirv got it: http://phoronix.com/forums/showpost....&postcount=142

                            Comment


                            • After all this discussion:
                              I'm still thinking the future of ATI->linux drivers will be crap

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by barbarbaron View Post
                                After all this discussion:
                                I'm still thinking the future of ATI->linux drivers will be crap
                                Don't mess with brigdman and the opensource people!

                                RMS will slapp you around bad boy bad boy!

                                Comment

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