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AMD Reportedly Plans To Bring Mantle To Linux, Calls Mantle An Open-Source API

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  • #16
    Call me when Intel and NVidia support it, otherwise this will only mean more complications.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by przemoli View Post
      APIs aint copyrightable (whatever any non-programmer could tell You), so they can not be proprietary nor "open sourced".
      The U.S. Federal Circuit Court disagrees with you there.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Nille View Post
        It require Hardware Features that currently only met AMDs GCN Cards.
        For what I read after mantle presentation, some Features where needed which on AMD hw were introduced with GCN, but on other vendors GPU the features should be present on much older hw.

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        • #19
          Sadly Mantle will not bring any games to Linux. Who wants to cater to 4% of 2% of gamers, where only 10% of those would actually buy the game?

          And no. Mantle doesn't simply need DX11 hardware. Even the DICE Mantle guy said that he doesn't know if it would work on Kepler.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by volca View Post
            Call me when Intel and NVidia support it, otherwise this will only mean more complications.
            They won't. Consider the differences between OpenGL and Mantle. If for some reason Intel and Nvidia support Mantle, then future versions of Mantle will rely on AMD, like Mantle 2.0 or 3.0. That's giving a lot of power to AMD to say what new features should be included in future versions of Mantle. This is why it's better to have an API designed by Khronos or Microsoft, even though Microsoft does put Xbox One over DirectX for Windows.

            Mantle uses HLSL, which seems to share something with Direct3D. Maybe beneficial for Wine performance on Linux?

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            • #21
              Call me when Intel and NVidia support it, otherwise this will only mean more complications.
              Well I woldn't care about them, the other GPU developers like Qualcom, Imagination, ARM and whoever I forgot to mantion, would have an bigger impact if exposed with Android which involves oss linux support in the first place. This would also justify the expense since the market share would be bigger and probably all so called hsa soc could be compatible.

              That's giving a lot of power to AMD to say what new features should be included in future versions of Mantle.
              ... This is why it's better to have an API designed by Khronos or Microsoft,
              Like with gddr which more or less are ddr modificatons from amd aquired as standard. Its teh same with many Koronos standards.
              Last edited by _ONH_; 06-18-2014, 04:50 AM.

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              • #22
                Certainly they won't do it if it is in hands of AMD. They could, though, hand it to Khronos.

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                • #23
                  i wonder.. if AMD get mantle support via gallium3D. It wont take much to make it work on the other gallium drivers like nouveau would it? What is AMD waiting for? what would be something to get rid of the image they created for themselves.... or shall i say grave...
                  people might trust them. And i am sure that Valve/Steam might also be interested as open source drivers will be a great point of debugging in the long run.
                  The question is: what is AMDs benefit from it? as i understand it it is only for boosting their CPU sells as they would suffice for future uses with little-overhead-API and HSA architecture i guess.

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                  • #24
                    Even if they got Mantle support to mesa/gallium3d, it would still need support from official NVidia, nouveau is not really a choice for gaming so far and legacy applications depend on OpenGL.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by jakubo View Post
                      i wonder.. if AMD get mantle support via gallium3D. It wont take much to make it work on the other gallium drivers like nouveau would it?
                      No. Mantle needs special hardware features that only GCN has. AMD can't even support all of their own DX11 hardware with it.

                      I wonder why AMD makes it sound like they'd need to start from scratch on Linux. Why not have a shim around Mantle to handle the OS abstraction for Mantle on Windows and Mantle on Linux? As far as I know that's how NVIDIA treats their OpenGL driver and it does wonders for their driver quality.

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                      • #26
                        I'm an OpenGL advocate first, but I realise that there are non-gaming companies such as Autodesk, that keep OpenGL from being as lean as it can be, and maybe they even have a right to. OpenGL didn't start out as a gaming API anyway.
                        If OpenGL 5.0 doesn't solve its issues, I hope AMD hand over Mantle to Khronos or something, and NVidia and Intel get onboard. On Windows, I've seen games having up to a 50% increase in framerate on Mantle compared to DirectX. Mantle would need to play nice with SDL, but I believe that's in the SDL devs' court.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jakubo View Post
                          i wonder.. if AMD get mantle support via gallium3D. It wont take much to make it work on the other gallium drivers like nouveau would it?
                          In theory, it wouldn't take anything. You can implement APIs on top of gallium as long as you only use concepts already abstracted by the pipe driver. That said, Gallium most likely will need some major refactoring to support an API like Mantle or Direct3D12.

                          Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
                          No. Mantle needs special hardware features that only GCN has. AMD can't even support all of their own DX11 hardware with it.
                          Well I don't have access to the API or it's documentation, and I assume that neither do you. So let's just not spread info that is probably not accurate. It is very well possible/probable that such capabilities are not REQUIRED but only exposed if present on hardware....
                          Let's also not confuse implementation with API...

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
                            No. Mantle needs special hardware features that only GCN has. AMD can't even support all of their own DX11 hardware with it.
                            No, and no or have you read the spec, an involved independent developer told, the nv should have the hw that is not within all the HD6000 and earlyer AMD GPU.
                            I wonder why AMD makes it sound like they'd need to start from scratch on Linux. Why not have a shim around Mantle to handle the OS abstraction for Mantle on Windows and Mantle on Linux? As far as I know that's how NVIDIA treats their OpenGL driver and it does wonders for their driver quality.
                            They want to change how Catalyst interacts with Linux, and that needs to bee decided/implemented up on first, the second reason could be that they woul oss the linux driver.

                            Isn't it also with catalyst the case that amd has sort of a shim to connct the platform independent code to linux.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by _ONH_ View Post
                              No, and no or have you read the spec, an involved independent developer told, the nv should have the hw that is not within all the HD6000 and earlyer AMD GPU.


                              They want to change how Catalyst interacts with Linux, and that needs to bee decided/implemented up on first, the second reason could be that they woul oss the linux driver.

                              Isn't it also with catalyst the case that amd has sort of a shim to connct the platform independent code to linux.
                              Then explain to me why Johan Andersson of DICE who was one of the main guys behind Mantle and its integration into Battlefiled 4, says that he isn't even sure if Kepler would work with Mantle?

                              http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldu...e-2045398.html

                              c't: Eine GPU braucht also lediglich ein gewisses Funktions-Niveau und schon klappt es mit der Mantle-Kompatibilität?

                              Andersson: Genau, nicht jede GPU ist Mantle-fähig. AMD-Chips müssen beispielsweise mindestens auf der GCN-Architektur basieren.

                              c't: Lässt sich sagen, dass man mindestens eine DirectX-11-kompatible GPU braucht?

                              Andersson: Nein, so einfach ist es nicht. Die Architektur der GPU muss davon unabhängig ganz bestimmte Anforderungen erfüllen. Man muss jede Architektur einzeln anschauen. Nvidias Kepler ist auch eine ziemlich moderne GPU. Ich weiss nicht genau, wie sie mit Mantle funktionieren würde, aber klappen würde es bestimmt.
                              Not that hard to translate. You have to look at every GPU architecture seperately to see if it's Mantle capable.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by mdias View Post
                                Well I don't have access to the API or it's documentation, and I assume that neither do you. So let's just not spread info that is probably not accurate. It is very well possible/probable that such capabilities are not REQUIRED but only exposed if present on hardware....
                                Let's also not confuse implementation with API...
                                actually, that was told on one of the first mantle presentation. if i remember correctly it was representative for nvidia that asked it. and answer was "you have to license gcn"

                                now. story changed as it seems. they actually said that MOST of mantle is not gcn specific. still, until nvidia and intel join, mantle is just short time vaporware

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