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  • @bridgeman
    SID is ALWAYS and forever the unstable disribution it has no version I don't think "experimental" has a name
    Lenny is the current testing for 5.0
    etch is the current stable 4.x
    sarge os the current oldstable 3.1

    when Lenny is released it will become the current stable
    and etch will be depreciated although probably still supported
    before Etch there was Sarge 3.1 and woody 3.0

    the naming follows the naming of characters from the movie Toy Story
    remember SID was the boy that lived next door and mangled toys in his experiments ie strapping them to rockets and the like

    nameing scheme explained in detail here its a good read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Releases
    Last edited by cb88; 01-30-2009, 10:19 PM.

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    • Originally posted by cb88 View Post
      @bridgeman
      SID is ALWAYS and forever the unstable disribution it has no version I don't think "experimental" has a name
      Lenny is the current testing for 5.0
      etch is the current stable 4.x
      sarge os the current oldstable 3.1

      when Lenny is released it will become the current stable
      and etch will be depreciated although probably still supported
      before Etch there was Sarge 3.1 and woody 3.0

      the naming follows the naming of characters from the movie Toy Story
      remember SID was the boy that lived next door and mangled toys in his experiments ie strapping them to rockets and the like

      nameing scheme explained in detail here its a good read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Releases
      be sure he know that... he is an linux guru...

      ... his point is diverent.. sid is not stable so he do not support sid.

      debian 5 isn't releaset so he do not support debian 5.

      thats the Point. if debian5 comes out in 1 or 2 weeks... he say o yes he try it out and fix the problem.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by cb88 View Post
        @bridgeman
        SID is ALWAYS and forever the unstable disribution it has no version I don't think "experimental" has a name
        Lenny is the current testing for 5.0
        etch is the current stable 4.x
        sarge os the current oldstable 3.1

        when Lenny is released it will become the current stable
        and etch will be depreciated although probably still supported
        before Etch there was Sarge 3.1 and woody 3.0

        the naming follows the naming of characters from the movie Toy Story
        remember SID was the boy that lived next door and mangled toys in his experiments ie strapping them to rockets and the like

        nameing scheme explained in detail here its a good read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian#Releases
        and yes you dispoint the fakt that sid was freeze for debian 5...

        so all new versions.. comes to experimental and sid is the direkt uploard link for the debian 5 devs,.,.

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        • Well I guess that supported distribution discussion is pointless. Basically a Xorg driver does not support distribution X but Xserver Y. All problems that occur with any distribution using the same Xserver - because of the same ABI. Debian 5.0 aka lenny is using Xserver 1.4.2 similar to Ubuntu hardy, Ubuntu intrepid uses Xserver 1.5.2 and Ubuntu jaunty will use 1.6 (current RC). As Debian is frozen, sid currently has the same version as lenny, but experimental has now 1.6 RC. So if ATI would just support Ubuntu they basically would support any distro. Last time Fedora was using Xserver 1.5 RC much before Ubuntu so they ignored it... Just in time for release they created a hotfix driver specific to Ubuntu. I don't think that's good style as you could expect that for Ubuntu jaunty too... ATI has OSS Xorg devs and they can surely tell the fglrx people when a new ABI is stable, thats the point a driver should be tested against it - and not several month later.

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          • Ah... that makes a bit more sence kano thanks I was thinking Sid didn't freeze (instead of experimental) when in reality it is just a buffer too keep testing from becoming too unstable
            Last edited by cb88; 01-30-2009, 10:40 PM.

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            • Originally posted by Kano View Post
              Well I guess that supported distribution discussion is pointless. Basically a Xorg driver does not support distribution X but Xserver Y. All problems that occur with any distribution using the same Xserver - because of the same ABI. Debian 5.0 aka lenny is using Xserver 1.4.2 similar to Ubuntu hardy, Ubuntu intrepid uses Xserver 1.5.2 and Ubuntu jaunty will use 1.6 (current RC). As Debian is frozen, sid currently has the same version as lenny, but experimental has now 1.6 RC. So if ATI would just support Ubuntu they basically would support any distro. Last time Fedora was using Xserver 1.5 RC much before Ubuntu so they ignored it... Just in time for release they created a hotfix driver specific to Ubuntu. I don't think that's good style as you could expect that for Ubuntu jaunty too... ATI has OSS Xorg devs and they can surely tell the fglrx people when a new ABI is stable, thats the point a driver should be tested against it - and not several month later.
              thats the fucking right shit :-) and hey your kernel is nice ...

              slhs one runs out of funktion becourse he turn of the catalyst support..

              at this day you save my life with the radeon 6.10 driver :-) the debian sid ones sucks hartly on my hd4350...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by cb88 View Post
                debian sid doesn't freeze afaik packages are just migrated from sid to testing after i think 10 days without bug reports
                debian sid is in freeze... the main packages only become bugfixes no new versions... kernel 2.6.26 and so on..

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                  be sure he know that... he is an linux guru...
                  I appreciate that but honestly I had never touched Linux before I took on this project -- I'm really learning as I go. I did work with X in the distant past, but that was more than 20 years ago before X11 was introduced and long before Linus even started working on a kernel.

                  Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                  ... his point is diverent.. sid is not stable so he do not support sid. debian 5 isn't releaset so he do not support debian 5. thats the Point. if debian5 comes out in 1 or 2 weeks... he say o yes he try it out and fix the problem.
                  It's actually more than that... I'm not nitpicking over whether a particular distro is released or not, I'm saying that right now we test and fix on released versions of RHEL / OpenSuSE (currently v11) / Ubuntu (currently 8.10), and any distro which is similar to those in terms of xorg and kernel is likely to work as well. The chances of fglrx working go down pretty dramatically as you move to newer kernel and xorg contents.

                  Kano; I agree that an xorg driver cares mostly about the xorg version, but I believe most of our issues are with the DRI part of the stack, which does care much more about kernel details than xorg details.
                  Last edited by bridgman; 01-31-2009, 01:03 AM.

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                  • Are you actually using Linux as your main OS on your computer at all?

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                    • Yes and no; I still need to run XP to get into most of our administrative systems at the office, and I'm typing this on a Vista system at home right now. I have a second system (running Ubuntu 8.10 right now, although it varies) at the office which I use most of the time, and I bought a second machine to run Linux at home which just arrived and will be unpacked over the weekend.

                      I was dual-booting Linux at home and trying various ways to get a reliable modem connection to my ISP, but so far I can only get a reliable connection with the Windows modem drivers. I purchased a network-attached 56K modem but that wasn't able to cope with the noisy phone lines out here in the sticks, which is why I purchased a second PC -- hopefully I can use the Windows modem driver to get a reliable ISP connection then use the Windows box as a router so the Linux system can get connectivity.

                      I know you guys all have DSL or satellite but neither of those is an option for me unless I cut down a LOT of trees to get line-of-site to the satellite.

                      Given that my official role here is managing the open source project, however, I am running an open source driver (currently radeonhd although it varies) most of the time, not fglrx.

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                      • **silence is heard as all eyes turn to bridgman**

                        EDIT: bugger, in to late..

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                        • And the real question is: How would you compare the user experience of Vista+ATI vs Linux+ATI

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                          • I actually like the "glass" part of the Vista UI, but haven't had time to see if there is an equivalent effect I can get on Linux. The last time I ran KDE was at home with OpenSuse 10.3 (I think); didn't like KDE 3.x much at the time. Gnome and I seem to get along pretty well; haven't tried KDE 4.x though. The ability to pop a new tab in IE by clicking on the stub tab at the right of the active windows is really nice and I use it a lot, which is a point in favor of IE/Vista over Firefox/Linux.

                            On the other hand, I do like the Compiz cube more than anything I have seen on Vista. I don't ever rotate the cube other than to show off what the drivers can do, but it is handy to be able to flip from one screen to another when reviewing documents and code. I dno't have the opportunity to play many H.264 videos so Xv has been enough for me -- BigBuckBunny plays ok at 1080p in H.264 but I have a quad-core CPU and a fast 5xx graphics card which probably both help. I'm planning to replace that with a slow 7xx card (4350 if I can find one) once I get my monitor back from Richard (see below).

                            Richard is using my 22" monitor to work on Mesa 6xx/7xx so my desktop Linux system at the office is down for a few days; in the meantime I put Intrepid on my laptop - a Thinkpad T41 with an M9 GPU. That doesn't work so well with Compiz and I had to turn off desktop effects to get consistently useable performance.

                            When I have a choice I tend to prefer the Linux system over the Windows one, even though right now I'm having to use a wussy Thinkpad with an even smaller screen than my XP box. I haven't seen performance problems running fglrx, radeon or radeonhd although I admit that probably means I need to get some slower hardware. All this stuff really did work out of the box for me, although I understand it isn't doing that for everyone.

                            Nobody ever likes my answers
                            Last edited by bridgman; 01-31-2009, 02:20 AM.

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                            • KDE 3.5 and KDE 4.2 are both very good on openSUSE 11.1. I'd give them both a try.

                              KDE 4.2 has its own composite window manager and effects, so you don't need to Compiz with it.

                              You can get a "glass" look in KDE with the Crystal window decoration.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                                The ability to pop a new tab in IE by clicking on the stub tab at the right of the active windows is really nice and I use it a lot, which is a point in favor of IE/Vista over Firefox/Linux.
                                Double-Clicking in the Tab-bar has the same effect in Firefox (opens up a new tab).
                                Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                                Nobody ever likes my answers
                                That's not true. You're posts are usually very elaborate and helpful, and I think they're the primary reason for some r600/r700-people here not to give up on AMD/ATi.
                                The only ones who seem to critisize every post of yours are the OPEN-UP-FGLRX!!111-people. :P

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