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  • Below is a posting I made in reply to someone in a thread on the opensource driver forum. It occurred to me that I really wanted the proprietary people to hear it too, so here it is....

    First of all I want to say that I do appreciate all the effort of the people doing the open source drivers, and I also do appreciate that AMD is trying to support linux. But I have to agree with the general thrust of the previous message. I just put together a home theater system based on an x2 5000+ and an ATI 690 based motherboard.

    I have tried running both the open source and ATI drivers under Gutsy and neither presents anything like satisfactory results. Really bad video tearing, horrible pixelation when increasing window size for video and the whole screen flashing pink/green for a variable amount of time whenever I start a video. And even though my monitor identifies the signal as 1080P it only fills about 90% of the actual screen so text etc. looks horrible as the 1920x1080 image is scaled down into a display grid of about 1800x1000 physical pixels.

    Not to mention the difficulty switching back and forth between trying out the open and proprietary drivers (no novice is going to get more than 5 seconds into that process before giving up.

    So I switched to an old copy of Win2KSP4 I had. Video tearing gone. Pink/green flashing gone. Smooth interpolation when maxing the video window. Yayyyy!

    But things are not perfect on the Windows side either. The problem of a 1080P image only filling 90% of the monitor still happens, and has been reported by more than a few others on the net. Plus there don't seem to be Catalyst drivers for Win2K for the 690/X1250 so I have no way of adjusting anything, in particular the antialiasing or making the display size fit the physical screen (I know, PowerStrip... that's my next try).

    This is exactly the sort of experience that is going to drive users away from Linux and to windows. And given that the 90% screen reduction on windows I'm not all that happy with AMD/ATI on windows either - I mean the 690 has been out for a long time now....

    I wanted to switch all our machines to the same OS and for that to be Linux but that isn't possible so after a few days time wasted I'm more or less forced back to Windows and am dubious about buying another AMD system/card for graphics since it doesn't seem to really work right even in Windows.

    Anyway that's my rant...

    Comment


    • And a good rant it was too

      OK, questions. Can I assume you are running with VideoOverlay off and TexturedVideo on, going through Xv ?

      Are you running 32-bit or 64-bit OS ? TexturedVideo support on 690 is still a work in process, and today I think it's just enabled on 32-bit OSes. For a 64-bit OS going out through OpenGL seems to be your best bet, but that should change soon.

      You will see ongoing improvements in the Catalyst releases, but Textured Video has also been added to the latest "radeon" driver (xf86-video-ati and might be worth a try. You'll need the latest source from git since this was only added in the last week or two.

      Does your monitor support 1080 native vertical resolution ? I haven't looked real closely at the "90%" issues but at first glance it seemed to be related to having less than 1080 lines of native resolution on the display (eg 1680x1050 or 1280x1024).

      Assuming that you have enough monitor resolution I might have to ask you to look at video playing on a newer flavour of Windows -- like it or not the development focus has been on Vista and (to a lesser extent) XP for quite a while.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
        And a good rant it was too

        OK, questions. Can I assume you are running with VideoOverlay off and TexturedVideo on, going through Xv ?

        Are you running 32-bit or 64-bit OS ? TexturedVideo support on 690 is still a work in process, and today I think it's just enabled on 32-bit OSes. For a 64-bit OS going out through OpenGL seems to be your best bet, but that should change soon.

        You will see ongoing improvements in the Catalyst releases, but Textured Video has also been added to the latest "radeon" driver (xf86-video-ati and might be worth a try. You'll need the latest source from git since this was only added in the last week or two.

        Does your monitor support 1080 native vertical resolution ? I haven't looked real closely at the "90%" issues but at first glance it seemed to be related to having less than 1080 lines of native resolution on the display (eg 1680x1050 or 1280x1024).

        Assuming that you have enough monitor resolution I might have to ask you to look at video playing on a newer flavour of Windows -- like it or not the development focus has been on Vista and (to a lesser extent) XP for quite a while.
        Felt good too!

        I cannot swear (should have taken notes I suppose) that I simultaneously had VideoOverlay off and TexturedVideo on but I"m reasonably sure... I'll have to reinstall to check that but iirc I had texturedvideo on and gloverlay on.

        This was all 32bit - although I'd prefer to run 64bit I assumed things would be less stable on it.

        The monitor manufacturer claims it is native 1080P (Viewsonic N4785P) (and if anyone can confirm either way I'd like to know) but even if it isn't I have seen the same complaint from several others running 1080P on other brands of large screen monitors.

        I was able to tweak modelines enough to get it to almost fill the whole screen at 62Hz but got distracted by the video tearing and pink/green flashing problems so I gave up on the size as being as less important defect at the time.

        Win 2K satisfies an awful lot of people because it does exactly what they want - there is nothing in XP or VIsta for them or me. But I know ATI is a business and cannot support old operating systems indefinitely. It's too bad because except for the image size the driver works quite well on 2K... enough so that it made me move to that from linux even though I'd rather be on Linux.

        Just a final thought... it would be nice if it was a little simpler to switch between proprietary and open source drivers - on Gutsy that turned out to be a pita .

        Comment


        • oh and yes, it was Xv....

          Originally posted by bridgman View Post
          And a good rant it was too

          OK, questions. Can I assume you are running with VideoOverlay off and TexturedVideo on, going through Xv ?

          Are you running 32-bit or 64-bit OS ? TexturedVideo support on 690 is still a work in process, and today I think it's just enabled on 32-bit OSes. For a 64-bit OS going out through OpenGL seems to be your best bet, but that should change soon.

          You will see ongoing improvements in the Catalyst releases, but Textured Video has also been added to the latest "radeon" driver (xf86-video-ati and might be worth a try. You'll need the latest source from git since this was only added in the last week or two.

          Does your monitor support 1080 native vertical resolution ? I haven't looked real closely at the "90%" issues but at first glance it seemed to be related to having less than 1080 lines of native resolution on the display (eg 1680x1050 or 1280x1024).

          Assuming that you have enough monitor resolution I might have to ask you to look at video playing on a newer flavour of Windows -- like it or not the development focus has been on Vista and (to a lesser extent) XP for quite a while.

          Comment


          • Sigh... must be having a meltdown today... I just rememebmred an additional bit of info on the issue of the image not occupying the full screen (Linux/W2K both)... one of the postings I had seen claimed that there was an overscan setting in the Catalyst driver (this was some version of Windows) and that it had a default setting that was high... once he turned that setting down the image went 1:1 filling the whole screen. Not having any access to Catalyst in Windows I hve no idea if this matches reality... it would make sense to mae if a CRT were being driven... but does overscan even make sense driving an LCD through HDMI?


            Originally posted by bridgman View Post
            And a good rant it was too

            OK, questions. Can I assume you are running with VideoOverlay off and TexturedVideo on, going through Xv ?

            Are you running 32-bit or 64-bit OS ? TexturedVideo support on 690 is still a work in process, and today I think it's just enabled on 32-bit OSes. For a 64-bit OS going out through OpenGL seems to be your best bet, but that should change soon.

            You will see ongoing improvements in the Catalyst releases, but Textured Video has also been added to the latest "radeon" driver (xf86-video-ati and might be worth a try. You'll need the latest source from git since this was only added in the last week or two.

            Does your monitor support 1080 native vertical resolution ? I haven't looked real closely at the "90%" issues but at first glance it seemed to be related to having less than 1080 lines of native resolution on the display (eg 1680x1050 or 1280x1024).

            Assuming that you have enough monitor resolution I might have to ask you to look at video playing on a newer flavour of Windows -- like it or not the development focus has been on Vista and (to a lesser extent) XP for quite a while.

            Comment


            • I honestly don't know what overscan does these days; I figured it would have gone away years ago. I'll find out.
              Last edited by bridgman; 03-04-2008, 10:03 PM.

              Comment


              • Just one more Question

                I'm running xp, vista and Linux here.
                Just got the 8.3 drivers for Vista and new hydravision for this BS.
                I don't understand why you reclaim to support Linux.
                You don't do it. Your drivers for this BS are ugly, not functional and dirty.
                So we are looking forward for a new generation of graphics implementation in CPUchip. If you are going on with your strategy to say you support linux, but don't really do, you'll loose. It's time. Use it.

                Conrad Lindenmeier
                Germany
                CLindenmeier@web.de

                Comment


                • Originally posted by c@phoro View Post
                  I'm running xp, vista and Linux here.
                  Just got the 8.3 drivers for Vista and new hydravision for this BS.
                  I don't understand why you reclaim to support Linux.
                  You don't do it. Your drivers for this BS are ugly, not functional and dirty.
                  So we are looking forward for a new generation of graphics implementation in CPUchip. If you are going on with your strategy to say you support linux, but don't really do, you'll loose. It's time. Use it.

                  Conrad Lindenmeier
                  Germany
                  CLindenmeier@web.de
                  Mm...I just had to respond. I dunno about you, but I'm thinking that the changes and improvements being made with regards to Linux support for both the OSS front and the closed driver front are the real deal. Whether it actually is will be seen in due time, but for now, this is my impression.

                  ...and the OSS effort is real btw...we've seen doc dump after doc dump already.

                  ...and what is this CPUchip you speak of?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    I honestly don't know what overscan does these days; I figured it would have gone away years ago. I'll find out.
                    John, I just wanted to ask something if you know...

                    Do you have any idea or heard anything from Matthew and the rest team about EXA and XvMC support from fglrx?
                    I mean if they have made any progress on these 2... cause you told me that 2D stuff is the high priority and indeed Textured Video is now a reality for my RS690 chip.

                    And what about Crossfire? Any hint?

                    Comment


                    • Hd3870x2!

                      Hi!

                      Could we expect support for the HD3870X2 in the near future (In official FGLRX driver)?

                      With or without crossfire!


                      Thank you

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Uchikoma View Post
                        ...and the OSS effort is real btw...we've seen doc dump after doc dump already.

                        ...and what is this CPUchip you speak of?
                        I' ll try to explain:

                        I'm not interested in a lot of maybe buggy doc dumps.
                        I'm interested in a graphics driver, which is functional.
                        Going back to Ati_Fglrx 11/07 i can run OS Linux Suse 10.3 with AGP Graphics Ati 1600Pro rudimentary here. It took me 4 Hours to find this solution.
                        Running the Vista-Os from Billy, I just installed the newest Catalyst (with AGP-fix in 8.3). Time needed: 3 minutes.
                        And this is why I ask the Ati Devs to send me there
                        Drivers for Linux for testing before releasing them. I'll test them for you Devs at Ati and I'll notify you if they are not functional, which is my experience with most of these Linux Driver Releases from Ati/AMD.

                        @Uchikoma: ' far I know next year Chips are at market with integrated CPU+GPU. This 'll be, from my my point of view, the time to change hardware.
                        Until now I don't see a reason to choose an AMD/ATI chip for this.
                        This is why I wrote that time is running and the devs at Ati should use it.

                        Excuse my English

                        Grts

                        Comment


                        • Please, Please Devs!
                          Update aticonfig tool in order to contain all the possible options to be added at xorg.conf file!!
                          Cause the 3 Textured Options are nowhere at aticonfig and they are really valuable now! I mean TexturedVideo, Textured2D, TexturedXrender.
                          Also mtrr is missing and tls needs a value specified not on or off!

                          Amdpcsdb force us now to use aticonfig in order to record and apply any by hand change at xorg.conf so it is very critical to update aticonfig in order to stop editing by hand and then do tricks in order changes to take affect.

                          We don't need workarounds! We need a graphical Aticonfig tool so that a newbie friend to Linux can use it straight away with no need to search the web for days in order to understand what to do! And start bitching at ATI and Linux generally.
                          Just make a simple gui and contain the descriptions from aticonfig --help or even better merge aticonfig into AMDCCCLE and just ask for a root password when the user reaches aticonfig's tab in CCC let's say...

                          I'd like to see more opinions on this topic cause I think it will make our lifes with ATI far easier!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by djdoo View Post
                            Just make a simple gui and contain the descriptions from aticonfig --help or even better merge aticonfig into AMDCCCLE and just ask for a root password when the user reaches aticonfig's tab in CCC let's say...
                            I agree, whole-heartedly. It's fun being the only geek around who knows how to make textured2d work, but your new features should be accessible to everyone, not obscured.

                            Comment


                            • No problem when only advanced users know of Textured2D/TexturedXrender, which is still experimental. But it is indeed a problem if only advanced users know of TexturedVideo which is needed for Xv on all cards since late 2005!

                              Comment


                              • Hi,

                                I have an ATI X1950GT AGP (rialto bridge). I also have this "blackscreen of death" problem, like the X2xxx AGP series, no response, no errors, and sometimes no logfile.

                                The only working driver is the 7.12 and versions before! 8.0x drivers cause this "blackscreen of death".

                                My chipset is a Intel 875p and intel_agp is runing.

                                Is that a known Problem?

                                Sorry for maybe bad english!

                                Many thanks and greetings!

                                Comment

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