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AMD Is Still Looking At The Feasibility Of Mantle On Linux

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  • AMD Is Still Looking At The Feasibility Of Mantle On Linux

    Phoronix: AMD Is Still Looking At The Feasibility Of Mantle On Linux

    This week when at the Game Developer's Conference one of the topics that many Phoronix readers wanted me to find out more about was in regards to AMD's Mantle API being supported on Linux...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTY0MDM

  • #2
    Mantle was announced last year as a closer-to-hardware graphics API to complement OpenGL and Direct3D.
    Does Mantle complement OpenGL and Direct3D or completely replace them?

    I was under the impression it was a complete replacement API rather than an extension for existing APIs?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Herem View Post
      Does Mantle complement OpenGL and Direct3D or completely replace them?

      I was under the impression it was a complete replacement API rather than an extension for existing APIs?
      It replaces them. I think by compliment he meant it in the idea of "This is a new thing coming in to compete with the existing things." Technically you CAN use 'compliment' there, but a clearer phrasing would have been to use "compete".

      Comment


      • #4
        I can't see the point in Mantle, it only seems to be making a difference in rigs with crappy CPUs (or rather APUs). It seems to be focused on use cases where the CPU is the bottleneck, which is hardly ever the case. If you've got a pimped out gaming rig then it doesn't seem to make much difference.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by kaprikawn View Post
          I can't see the point in Mantle, it only seems to be making a difference in rigs with crappy CPUs (or rather APUs). It seems to be focused on use cases where the CPU is the bottleneck, which is hardly ever the case. If you've got a pimped out gaming rig then it doesn't seem to make much difference.
          GPU processing power has been accelerating exponentially faster than that of CPUs for a long time. This means with each new generation of hardware even the fastest CPUs will increasingly become more of a bottleneck.

          SLI configurations already deliver impressive gains under Mantle, even on top end Intel processors; come the next GPU generation this is likely to be representative of single card performance.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Herem View Post
            GPU processing power has been accelerating exponentially faster than that of CPUs for a long time. This means with each new generation of hardware even the fastest CPUs will increasingly become more of a bottleneck.

            SLI configurations already deliver impressive gains under Mantle, even on top end Intel processors; come the next GPU generation this is likely to be representative of single card performance.
            SLI, as in the Nvidia technology that lets you connect two (or more) Nvidia GPU's together? Gains under Mantle? Source?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kaprikawn View Post
              I can't see the point in Mantle, it only seems to be making a difference in rigs with crappy CPUs (or rather APUs). It seems to be focused on use cases where the CPU is the bottleneck, which is hardly ever the case. If you've got a pimped out gaming rig then it doesn't seem to make much difference.
              "There is no point in optimizing software, just use high end hardware"
              Yeah ... okaaaaay

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              • #8
                Originally posted by M1kkko View Post
                SLI, as in the Nvidia technology that lets you connect two (or more) Nvidia GPU's together? Gains under Mantle? Source?
                I think he meant crossfire

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by M1kkko View Post
                  SLI, as in the Nvidia technology that lets you connect two (or more) Nvidia GPU's together? Gains under Mantle? Source?
                  He means Crossfire and he's right it does benefit greatly from Mantle since SLI/Crossfire is easily bottlenecked by the CPU even if you have a Haswell i7. Pretty much everyone overclocks their i7 to 4.5 GHz to get more out of their SLI/Crossfire setup.

                  http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/17...ce-directx-9/3

                  Also even on a Single GPU setup with a R290X and Core i7 you'll gain more performance in CPU intensive scenarios like Multiplayer. It's not true that Mantle only shines with crap CPUs.
                  Last edited by blackout23; 03-23-2014, 06:20 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Also Mantle allow for ditching basic SLI technique in which alternate frames are rendered on both GPU's.

                    Now game devs can assign different task to different GPUs (So weaker GPU from APU may just render smog for content rendered on dGPU... etc.)


                    Also orchestrating work of SUB GPU units is something we do not have yet in OpenGL.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
                      He means Crossfire and he's right it does benefit greatly from Mantle since SLI/Crossfire is easily bottlenecked by the CPU even if you have a Haswell i7.
                      Thanks Blackout, it was early and I've previously used Nvidia hardware for many years.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kaprikawn View Post
                        I can't see the point in Mantle, it only seems to be making a difference in rigs with crappy CPUs (or rather APUs). It seems to be focused on use cases where the CPU is the bottleneck, which is hardly ever the case. If you've got a pimped out gaming rig then it doesn't seem to make much difference.
                        offloading as much cpu as possible is positive no matter how your rig is built. if nothing else you don't switch hardware every day and older your hardware gets more there is a chance games would want to do more than your rig is capable. that's where offloading cpu is saving your ass

                        but, more to the point. mantle being built around this feature is a failure. opengl has it already (if i'm not mistaken from 4.3), dx12 is implementing its own solution of the same. there is simply no incentive to use one more api that brings nothing to the table and only works on some cards

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
                          He means Crossfire and he's right it does benefit greatly from Mantle since SLI/Crossfire is easily bottlenecked by the CPU even if you have a Haswell i7. Pretty much everyone overclocks their i7 to 4.5 GHz to get more out of their SLI/Crossfire setup.

                          http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/17...ce-directx-9/3

                          Also even on a Single GPU setup with a R290X and Core i7 you'll gain more performance in CPU intensive scenarios like Multiplayer. It's not true that Mantle only shines with crap CPUs.

                          Indeed you have more fps with crossfire, sadly it increase stutter and random fps drops, i hope they fix it in 14.4 cause the stutter made any fps gains pointless.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sdar View Post
                            Indeed you have more fps with crossfire, sadly it increase stutter and random fps drops, i hope they fix it in 14.4 cause the stutter made any fps gains pointless.
                            Already fixed on Windows with Frame Pacing in the AMD driver.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              So how open is Mantle?

                              I have concerns about how open AMD is willing to be on Mantle. There is no value in one company turning up with a solution and saying "everyone use this now". Are they going to let NVidia use it? Intel? What licence is it under? Patents? Is it very closely tied to AMD's chip designs?

                              My main hope is that this becomes a talking point for the Khronos group and something "like it but collabratively designed" comes out. Then they can call it OpenGL 5.0 or something. The last thing we need is yet another proprietary/patentented graphics API.

                              Basically, until I see MIT licensed Mesa code from AMD and documentation from a standards body like Khronos (with a thumbs up from Intel/Nvidia), I'm saying no...

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