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  • Another Game Studio Backs AMD's Mantle API

    Phoronix: Another Game Studio Backs AMD's Mantle API

    There's another game studio now backing AMD's Mantle graphics rendering API that aims to be faster and easier to implement for games than OpenGL. However, we're still waiting for AMD Mantle on Linux...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTUyNTc

  • #2
    Faster probably, easier I don't think so. Mantle is quite low level and that requires to do more things yourself (eg dependency tracking). Overall it sounds like a nice API because it gives more freedom and predictability to developers but I don't think other vendors will adopt it in it's current form.

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    • #3
      It is nice to see Mantle getting more support, but Rebellion is not actually known for its quality games...

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      • #4
        The company responsible for some of this year's most terrible games is excited about Mantle. Ohhh, I'm soooooo excited too! NOT.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Phoronix
          Granted, considering the poor state of the Radeon R9 290 on Linux, AMD might not be in an immediate rush to push Mantle
          on Linux but it's great to see game studios taking a greater interest in the API spawned by AMD.
          I don't get this.

          *If* we assume Mantle is already in a good shape and only needs some final polish,
          wouldn't that be a great chance for AMD to circumvent the OpenGL misery (see Metro: LL, etc.)?
          And as it is a low-level API, it sounds like it doesn't require much work to bring it to Linux.(?)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by godlike_panos View Post
            Faster probably, easier I don't think so. Mantle is quite low level and that requires to do more things yourself (eg dependency tracking). Overall it sounds like a nice API because it gives more freedom and predictability to developers but I don't think other vendors will adopt it in it's current form.
            It cannot be harder than OpenGL, that's a given. Not only do you have to contend with API madness, you have to fight against drivers all the way through (does any driver actually implement UBOs to spec yet?)

            So yeah, Mantle could be a breath of fresh air. Although considering it's AMD, it will probably be half-assed and half-supported in the end.

            (How about this: release it as an open specification and make sure other people can implement it. Keeping it behind closed doors until 2015 is not going to help anyone.)

            Edit: have they said anything about Linux support?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by entropy View Post
              I don't get this.

              *If* we assume Mantle is already in a good shape and only needs some final polish,
              wouldn't that be a great chance for AMD to circumvent the OpenGL misery (see Metro: LL, etc.)?
              And as it is a low-level API, it sounds like it doesn't require much work to bring it to Linux.(?)
              Good questions, but the only answer for now: time will tell, no one knows for sure.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by godlike_panos View Post
                Faster probably, easier I don't think so. Mantle is quite low level and that requires to do more things yourself (eg dependency tracking). Overall it sounds like a nice API because it gives more freedom and predictability to developers but I don't think other vendors will adopt it in it's current form.
                As far as I understand only engine developers need to target Mantle. Game developers just use the engine and the tools that come with it. There are only 4 really popular engines so seems pretty easy to me.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                  Edit: have they said anything about Linux support?
                  DICE is "hopeful" that Mantle will land on non-Windows systems some day, but there's been no indication that any effort is occurring to make that happen.

                  AMD has been 100% mum on the topic of course.

                  Mantle will certainly give Windows a performance advantage over, say, SteamOS.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by godlike_panos View Post
                    Faster probably, easier I don't think so. Mantle is quite low level and that requires to do more things yourself (eg dependency tracking). Overall it sounds like a nice API because it gives more freedom and predictability to developers but I don't think other vendors will adopt it in it's current form.
                    I think the "easier to implement" statement is actually referred to drivers, as you implement more basic operations, it might be easier to implement.

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                    • #11
                      Now it's just a matter of when the Linux support will arrive.
                      Hint:
                      Starts with n, ends with r and the middle letters are eve.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                        It cannot be harder than OpenGL, that's a given. Not only do you have to contend with API madness, you have to fight against drivers all the way through (does any driver actually implement UBOs to spec yet?)

                        So yeah, Mantle could be a breath of fresh air. Although considering it's AMD, it will probably be half-assed and half-supported in the end.

                        (How about this: release it as an open specification and make sure other people can implement it. Keeping it behind closed doors until 2015 is not going to help anyone.)

                        Edit: have they said anything about Linux support?
                        Mantle will not change anything, unless anything else than GCN AMD chips are supported. Up to this point all games on Linux will have to use OpenGL, so actually at this point Mantle is increasing the work that has to be done on the game engines, since you have to support two render-paths in that case.
                        It will only be a fresh breeze of air if it gets supported by non-GCN AMD cards (nobody will replace a perfectly working HD68XX/69XX with a HD7XXX card just to get Mantle support) and of course by Nvidia and Intel. Otherwise it will just be another of AMD's inventions that sounds nice, but won't get a breakthrough.

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                        • #13
                          Star Citizen, the crowdfunded space MMO by Chris Roberts of Wing Commander fame, has stated that they will support mantle too. https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...Mantle-Support

                          And even if you're not interested in Star Citizen (you should be , this is interesting as they use the Cry Engine, probably meaning that the Cry Engine eventually also will support Mantle. From what has been stated elsewhere around SC, Cloud Imperium Games/Roberts Space Industries work very closely with the Cry developers, and we've been given the impression that AMD probably sponsors the development on Star Citizens end.

                          Linux support has been asked for a lot around Star Citizen, but nothing has been promised sofar. The work on a Linux enabled Cry Engine has spurred further hope, but CIG has stated that there are other hurdles in some of the other game sub systems.

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                          • #14
                            I'm still not convinced how no security is a good idea at all, especially on Linux where implementing things into the drivers is not an issue. It will result in a lot of crappy games that lock your GPU up because someone forgot to release their resources or other silly things like that. And I really don't like having to trust game developers to have a better idea of how my graphics card works than the company that designed it, because that just won't happen...

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                              How about this: release it as an open specification and make sure other people can implement it. Keeping it behind closed doors until 2015 is not going to help anyone.
                              I agree. ASAIK spec are still a work in progress, and the first finalised version should be available next year. I assume the specs will be publicly available at this time, but have no confirmation yet.
                              What would be nice is to see that API supported through the HSA fundation. (It use some of the concepts of heterogenous computing, like shared memory model for example.)

                              Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                              Edit: have they said anything about Linux support?
                              It seems that some company spoke about the fact that they would like to see mantle on both linux and mac. But nothing have been announced yet.

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