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  • #31
    Originally posted by remm View Post
    I expect if they do a round of testing, they would test with a variety of applications, including games running on Wine.
    You would expect that, now wouldn't you?

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    • #32
      These results are nice, but i see a few key games that should be tested missing... namely the ones as follows:

      Quake 4
      Unreal tournament 2004 ( might be good to use Unreal Tournament 3 when that comes out instead )
      Serious Sam 2

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      • #33
        Where are you guys getting that Quake Wars is using Directx 10? Its a opengl game.. Yes under Windows it uses Directx for input and stuff, but NOT for rendering. And besides, I think Michael would had turned off vsync for the benchmark (which I'm pretty sure he did). Hes aware of those things.

        Just because Vista has directx 10 doesn't mean every game you run on it is in "Directx 10" it is not. The game has to be coded for Directx 10. Which, there aren't really any out there, maybe one or two, and we know how impressive those were. *sarcasm*

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        • #34
          sorry

          Originally posted by givemesugarr View Post


          wow, you've been able to say something without really saying something...

          sorry for my bad english, I wanted to say that the improvement curve with linux drivers is better than windows becouse it was worse at the beginning

          yes, you're right!!! i'm buying right now an iphone to run unreal tournament 3 on it. i've had it powered by an ati hd 2900 xt 1gb of ram in sli with an nvidia 8800gt 1gb...

          I wanted to say future Iphones, and smartphones or PDAs,

          after all it seems that you haven't really understand what here at phoronix are benchmarking...
          I would like to read benchmarks "pears vs pears", Opengl vs opengl, and directx vs directx, and as directx canbe run under linux with wine, cedega or under virtualization I would like to read this, but a real benchmarking of "pears vs pears" if you are running Virtualbox in a system it must be benchmarked too versus Virtualbox in that OS.

          Sorry for the misunderstanding, but at least I made you laught

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          • #35
            okey theese are the games i wanna test for linux BOTH ATI NVIDIA AND INTEL cross OS.

            lets see windows 2000 and 2003 server, if phoronix want the copy of 2003 server i got from the book i bought about win 2k3 they can have it, or just ask microsoft about it.

            i used to use windows server, increased my performance in lotsa stuff, strange, but did.

            Okey

            UT yes the first, Ut 2004 and Ut3 when it comes.
            Quake3 and Quake4
            Quakewars

            Wine :
            Warcraft 3
            WOW.

            and we need dx wine games, any suggestions ? what does ppl game alot through wine thats DX?

            Comment


            • #36
              I would like to read benchmarks "pears vs pears", Opengl vs opengl, and directx vs directx, and as directx canbe run under linux with wine, cedega or under virtualization I would like to read this, but a real benchmarking of "pears vs pears" if you are running Virtualbox in a system it must be benchmarked too versus Virtualbox in that OS.
              a virtual box on windows to run a windows game it's nonsense... you run virtualized games in wine e cedega since that it's the only way to make them run in linux, and it's obvious that you'd have some loss (not always anyways). running a virtualized windows game in a windows system is just futile. and i don't think that would users want to know about them. what's important is to have a comparison of the same game in windows and linux.
              the part of opengl vs opengl is possibile with recent games as enemy territory for example, but not with older games which run on directx. and directx run only on cedega, for what i know, that is a proprietary stuff.
              another thing is that you have to have some software good for benchmarks as newer games which, without a linux native client, don't run under non-proprietary software and often don't run on linux in the first one or two months when they're out.
              for example the unreal 3 for windows won't run on cedega before the linux client to be ready...
              and for a gamer i recommend to have installed both windows and linux in a paravirtualization method since the new processors from amd and intel support the paravirtualization without changes in the kernel. in this way they can run a windows box without closing the linux one when they need to play some particular game that doesn't have a linux client.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by givemesugarr View Post
                a virtual box on windows to run a windows game it's nonsense... you run virtualized games in wine e cedega since that it's the only way to make them run in linux, and it's obvious that you'd have some loss (not always anyways). running a virtualized windows game in a windows system is just futile. and i don't think that would users want to know about them. what's important is to have a comparison of the same game in windows and linux.
                the part of opengl vs opengl is possibile with recent games as enemy territory for example, but not with older games which run on directx. and directx run only on cedega, for what i know, that is a proprietary stuff.
                another thing is that you have to have some software good for benchmarks as newer games which, without a linux native client, don't run under non-proprietary software and often don't run on linux in the first one or two months when they're out.
                for example the unreal 3 for windows won't run on cedega before the linux client to be ready...
                and for a gamer i recommend to have installed both windows and linux in a paravirtualization method since the new processors from amd and intel support the paravirtualization without changes in the kernel. in this way they can run a windows box without closing the linux one when they need to play some particular game that doesn't have a linux client.
                Erm, what? Wine isn't proprietary software, although it attempts to provide a translation layer between the (proprietary) DirectX API and the OpenGL API. Relatively old versions of Wine are okay with many recent games (they lack complete DirectX 9, and all DirectX10 support, but then, it's not like you're missing much in the latter case), including recent Source-engine games.
                Now, Cedega is a proprietary fork of Wine, yes. That doesn't mean it works better than it - indeed, recently, a number of people have had better success with Wine than with Cedega, on a range of games.

                (And what's this with the implication that "older games use DirectX"? Half-life (the original one) has an OpenGL renderer... it was only with later DirectX versions (8 and later) that people really started ignoring the OpenGL rendering path. And, in any case, "having an OpenGL renderer" != "runs on Linux"...)

                In addition, it seems very silly for you to recommend paravirtualisation as a solution for gamers - it is only recently that any virtualisation solution has managed to support hardware 3d acceleration, and as far as I know it is still fairly unreliable. As far as I know, CPU-level paravirtualisation has the same problems - certainly, the last time I looked at the Xen mailing list, even using AMD paravirtualisation, they still couldn't provide hardware 3d, because of the issues in memory mapping between the virtual and real address spaces for DMA type stuff.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Wine
                  i wasn't talking about wine but about cedega, which is actually proprietary software, as it is the codeweavers's wine software.
                  and cedega DO HAS directx support unlike wine which doesn't!!!

                  In addition, it seems very silly for you to recommend paravirtualisation as a solution for gamers - it is only recently that any virtualisation solution has managed to support hardware 3d acceleration, and as far as I know it is still fairly unreliable. As far as I know, CPU-level paravirtualisation has the same problems - certainly, the last time I looked at the Xen mailing list, even using AMD paravirtualisation, they still couldn't provide hardware 3d, because of the issues in memory mapping between the virtual and real address spaces for DMA type stuff.
                  maybe i was too harsh on this. i don't know where the paravirt has arrived, but i do know that the newer processors have the virt capabilities and that it's possible to run both windows and linux on the same box without problems. i thought that with the announce made out by the xen people on the half of 2005 by now they would have provided good 3d virtualizazion so i don't know if the 3d is actualle provided or not (as with vmware and similar softwares), but this would also be an interesting point to find out:
                  how does a paravirtualized linux-windows box behaves. i don't know if someone has tested one yet. phoronix should have a big amount of data of tests on windows and linux and maybe testing out a parav box to see how behaves wouldn't be too difficult.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by givemesugarr View Post
                    i wasn't talking about wine but about cedega, which is actually proprietary software, as it is the codeweavers's wine software.
                    and cedega DO HAS directx support unlike wine which doesn't!!!
                    As aoanla said, Wine does have support for DirectX (<10), and it is probably about as complete as Cedega's support.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Wine does have support for DirectX (<10), and it is probably about as complete as Cedega's support.
                      wow, i've never known that... maybe it's due to the fact that i don't use wine.
                      see how many things you learn when talking to other people that know more than you on a certain matter.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Ole-Martin Broz View Post
                        okey theese are the games i wanna test for linux BOTH ATI NVIDIA AND INTEL cross OS.

                        lets see windows 2000 and 2003 server, if phoronix want the copy of 2003 server i got from the book i bought about win 2k3 they can have it, or just ask microsoft about it.

                        i used to use windows server, increased my performance in lotsa stuff, strange, but did.

                        Okey

                        UT yes the first, Ut 2004 and Ut3 when it comes.
                        Quake3 and Quake4
                        Quakewars

                        Wine :
                        Warcraft 3
                        WOW.

                        and we need dx wine games, any suggestions ? what does ppl game alot through wine thats DX?

                        How about adding the following titles then:

                        The Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion ( has opengl and D3D if i am right )
                        The Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind (opengl? )
                        Dark Messiah of Might and Magic
                        Far Cry
                        Gothic 3
                        Titan Quest ( With it's expansion. )

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I don't think the list should be very long, maybe 3 games at most for Wine testing. WoW shouldn't be in the test bed because that game requires a monthly fee and I don't think Michael would be interested in doing testing on a game and have to spend 15$ just to do it. (I wouldn't either in a million years)

                          Just remember that the tests with Wine depend on Wine more importantly than just the graphic drivers. And that I don't think Wine should be the center of attention for testing. People want it, but its NOT native (In theory it is, but thats a different story).

                          All of the games like UT 2004 and such are all testable in Windows as well. Just remember to use the OpenGL renderer in Windows as well to give a more accurate test, since the Windows version defaults to the Direct3d renderer.

                          More games will be tested, just let Phoronix do their thing. Wine is not of any importance here. Thats a different can of worms.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Malikith View Post
                            Just remember that the tests with Wine depend on Wine more importantly than just the graphic drivers.
                            That, of course, depends on the game - some Wine optimisations for 2d games have been broken with fglrx for some time now, because the fglrx driver doesn't make available the full range of OpenGL extensions that it should. That's, arguably, not Wine's fault.

                            Of course, you're quite right that this is outside of the remit of the kind of testing Phoronix is thinking of - this kind of full-scale testing would also require an nVidia card as a control, to isolate Wine issues from fglrx issues, and I doubt they have the time to do that many benchmarks...

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by aoanla View Post
                              ... I doubt they have the time to do that many benchmarks...
                              I have the time

                              However I don't have the hardware
                              (only have a 3870)

                              It would be nice to see a 3870 comparison with more titles

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