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  • #16
    Originally posted by Ole-Martin Broz View Post
    yeah.. i run it in 64 bit, but since it run 32 bit libaries, means. no improvement, or ami wrong, sounds kind of straight forward in the name: 32 bit libaries.
    It'll be using the 32-bit builds of libGL, yes, but the kernel fglrx will be 64-bit, and the underlying kernel itself will be 64-bit. Potentially, there is room for some speed up just from the increased kernel efficiency.

    (In addition, since the 64-bit fglrx seems to be more likely to cause problems than the 32-bit compile, it'd be nice to see if there is any difference in their performance...)

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    • #17
      ETQW isnt for 64 bit
      a multilib amd64 system doesn't have any problems running a 32bit application. the prof is that you can actually see wmv/asf videos, or listen to wma, or run acroread without problems in a 64bit system.
      you don't have optimization for 32bit apps, but a lot of apps like kde, gnome, xorg have a better result when running on 64bit instead of running 32bit on 64bit hw (on my system this is about 10-12% of increased speed).
      my idea of testing this on 64bit arch is due to the fact that i've heard that the 64bit ati isn't quite as good as the 32bit counterpart, so that a 64bit test could be interesting, so that we can also try to see what changes when compared to 32bit.

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      • #18
        why not take an nvidia card for comparision too? that would be really interesting.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by givemesugarr View Post
          now, let's return to the bench themselves:
          are there texture errors or tearing during normal use of the system with the new ati drivers?! if you didn't experienced issues, may this be caused by fact that the last releases of the driver are optimized to work with the r600 series?! this could really be a reason why the new driver performs so well with the hd board.
          and as a test, it would be nice if an amd64 or ia64 version could be tested, since the number of linux users using a 64bit version distro is quite high. how do these games perform with a 64bit version distro?
          Heh... This would be a given, considering that the 8.41 driver set was officially only R600- you were dead on your own if you used it with anything else and they actually blocked certain classes of chipsets because they really weren't sure the code would work right on the chip or they were dead certain it'd crash in some very embarrassing ways. Now, having said this, I want, somehow, to get to the bottom of this little interesting turn of events- is it because of missing pieces in the driver's support of OpenGL 2.X or is it because the implementation meshes MUCH better with Linux with those games?

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          • #20
            but even with faster drivers, how is compatibility for ati these days? the fglrx drivers a year ago certainly werent compatible with ALOT of stuff, like wine, or just the various opengl apps out there... have the ati provided libgl come to a point where its actually working for more than the ID games there are?

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            • #21
              I expect if they do a round of testing, they would test with a variety of applications, including games running on Wine.

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              • #22
                i cant seem to tell ive had any issues running apps, except some DX games, but they can be run in opengl. like wow warcraft 3, and to be honest, starcraft broodwar goes better on 2900 xt than 8800 GTS/GTX, which kind of suprised me.

                well, you all might say, starcraft doesnt lagg on my whatever kind of videocard, but it doesnt lagg, till like 5 minutes in the game, the game start to become active and all that. like while playing with 200+ actions per minute, pro gaming.

                well. i got some annoying bugs in like gnome, while using my workspace, thats the issue for ati users primarily i guess, for hd users probaly.

                I think ati have gotten this driver nearly perfect for the HD series, just to give the same support all the way down to x700.


                But with 64 bit fglrx gnome xorg and all that. it still means that we got a bottle neck >_< the GL! so i'd be expecting very simular results, i dont know, lets throw it in the party of benchmark, and see what happens

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                • #23
                  Quake 4

                  What about Quake 4? On my 9800 Pro I can't compare the results on XP and Linux. On both plattforms the game is playable but on Linux is looks very ugly. I remember the situation with Doom 3 was the same.

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                  • #24
                    Well I only registered to say something to this comments...
                    First the game does not use DX10 on windows and even if nobody is stopping you creating this effects using opengl as long as the hardware and driver supports it (nvidia has opengl extensions for this; I am not sure about ATI).
                    The only two things that can affect perfomance in this case are either vsync which is already mentioned, or AA (enabling it in the game did not have any effect for me using the demo, I had to enable them using the drivers.) But the article should have mentntioned any use of AA/AF.

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                    • #25
                      Okay, I think there might be another thing that *could* cause quite some difference:
                      CPU-Limitation!
                      Yes, it does look unlikely when looking at the specs of the cpu used, but the very similar results at 1280x1024 and 1680x1050 do look like there is a cpu limitation. The difference between those resolutions shoud be more than only 0.2 fps (<1%). The CPU used does only have a rather low clockspeed (1.8Ghz) and maybe the 1.1 version of etqw is basically singlethreaded. In such a situation there *might* be some differences due to cpu handling from the side of the operating system, though the other 7 cores should be able to handle the os rather well (no idea if that really is the case on windows... ).
                      Regarding the changelog of patch 1.2 for etqw there might be some significant changes with that version.

                      And to have more reliable results, there are two things that I would like to see:
                      1) Screenshots for image quality comparisons. Do both versions really look identical?
                      2) A comparison with WinXP as in "is the really bad vista driver at fault". I would not be suprised if it is just the vista driver misbehaving since both, AMD/ATI and NVidia did have quite some problems with getting speed out of their cards under Vista.

                      Never the less, the performance of the latest AMD/ATI driver seems to be really good. Looks like the guys really did a great job with the new opengl implementation.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by ivanovic View Post
                        Okay, I think there might be another thing that *could* cause quite some difference:
                        CPU-Limitation!
                        Yes, it does look unlikely when looking at the specs of the cpu used, but the very similar results at 1280x1024 and 1680x1050 do look like there is a cpu limitation. The difference between those resolutions shoud be more than only 0.2 fps (<1%). The CPU used does only have a rather low clockspeed (1.8Ghz) and maybe the 1.1 version of etqw is basically singlethreaded. In such a situation there *might* be some differences due to cpu handling from the side of the operating system, though the other 7 cores should be able to handle the os rather well (no idea if that really is the case on windows... ).
                        Regarding the changelog of patch 1.2 for etqw there might be some significant changes with that version.

                        And to have more reliable results, there are two things that I would like to see:
                        1) Screenshots for image quality comparisons. Do both versions really look identical?
                        2) A comparison with WinXP as in "is the really bad vista driver at fault". I would not be suprised if it is just the vista driver misbehaving since both, AMD/ATI and NVidia did have quite some problems with getting speed out of their cards under Vista.

                        Never the less, the performance of the latest AMD/ATI driver seems to be really good. Looks like the guys really did a great job with the new opengl implementation.


                        Look the same to me, in quality, i run both my settings on 8xMSAA 16xAF. @ 1280x1024

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                        • #27
                          I would like persistent benchmarks

                          As there are no more websites that benchmarks linux i would like persistent benchmarking for drivers.

                          I also would like 2 game tests OpenGl and Directx.

                          The first one (opengl) with Xp, Vista, Linux native, Wine, XP virtualized on Xp, on Linux, and Vista, Vista virtualized on XP, Linux and Vista, and Linux vurtualized on XP, Linux and Vista

                          (Starting with Quake3, and one opengl game for each year)

                          The second one identical, but for directx games.

                          You can have Nvidia and Ati identical machines, and test them with latest drivers and a driver for quarter for example.

                          Of course Linux would have better curve than Windows, but it was so far, now, that drivers are closer repeat this tests after each upgrade would help a lot to choose better to play.

                          Last, but not least, the future of gaming, could be memory sticks (perhaps USB3) with live distributions, with linux and open source dirvers (identical to propietary ones I hope in a near future) that you can play in several different hardware, as PCs, MACs, PS3, NWii, iPhones and other game machines, including Xbox perhaps MS would reject this kind of distribution, but it would save a lot of mpney in development and it would work great even against piracy.

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                          • #28
                            The first one (opengl) with Xp, Vista, Linux native, Wine, XP virtualized on Xp, on Linux, and Vista, Vista virtualized on XP, Linux and Vista, and Linux vurtualized on XP, Linux and Vista


                            you've forgotten to mention solaris, solaris virtualized on vista, on xp, on linux, on solaris and project indiana, then freebsd and freebsd on unix that is virtualized on xp that is virtualized by vista, which is virtualized by kubuntu, which runs on ubuntu....

                            Of course Linux would have better curve than Windows, but it was so far, now, that drivers are closer repeat this tests after each upgrade would help a lot to choose better to play.
                            wow, you've been able to say something without really saying something...

                            Last, but not least, the future of gaming, could be memory sticks (perhaps USB3) with live distributions, with linux and open source dirvers (identical to propietary ones I hope in a near future) that you can play in several different hardware, as PCs, MACs, PS3, NWii, iPhones and other game machines, including Xbox perhaps MS would reject this kind of distribution, but it would save a lot of mpney in development and it would work great even against piracy.
                            yes, you're right!!! i'm buying right now an iphone to run unreal tournament 3 on it. i've had it powered by an ati hd 2900 xt 1gb of ram in sli with an nvidia 8800gt 1gb...


                            after all it seems that you haven't really understand what here at phoronix are benchmarking...

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                            • #29
                              Okay lets be nice now...-_-

                              Firstly though mitcoes, I'm kinda curious how we'd do directx testing in linux, and openGL in windows. Linux games don't have support for DirectX for a rather obvious reason(s). [It's not there! *gasp*]

                              Secondly, virtualization just kills performance. I'm not even sure most gamers would like to run modern games in a virtualized environment especially when there are native clients available.

                              I don't get the remaining statements in your post though.

                              Anyhow, that's my thoughts on your proposal. Correct me if I'm wrong ^^

                              But the idea of persistent benchmarking like what is carried out in Windows systems, would be nice...further down the line when Linux becomes more of a gaming platform with more install base.

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                              • #30
                                But the idea of persistent benchmarking like what is carried out in Windows systems, would be nice...further down the line when Linux becomes more of a gaming platform with more install base.
                                wow... say it right: you're the universal translator from star trek!!! it's difficult to think of that from that words...
                                the problem is always the time and the fact that linux is fully customizable, so there may be differences when running on newer/older versions of xorg, or on kde vs gnome vs evolution... the continuous benchmarks would be interesting but there's a really great work to do that and i don't know if the guys at phoronix have this manpower to do these benchmarks everytime.
                                maybe assigning them to a list of some willing users would help, but then there would be first the need to set out a policy on how to do the benchmarks before venturing in such a project.
                                Last edited by givemesugarr; 10-31-2007, 05:22 PM.

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