Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why I Love AMD and Why You Need To Stop Whining

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    I just started tracing and profiling my kernel...

    *sniff*... & their stocks hovering @ $2.50...

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by MWisBest View Post
      If you have other issues you'd like to bring up, I'll offer a rebuttal.
      Generally I like what AMD is doing. I switched from Nvidia in my desktop due to wanting to support a company that was working on open source drivers. However, there is problems that will probably result in my next laptop having an Intel chip rather than an AMD chip, and if you have truely been following the issues people are complaining about then you surely would have read it before.

      Power usage, my laptop feels like a small heater I'm scared to leave it on when I'm not around as I fear it may cause my house to burn down, not to mention the short battery life when its not plugged into the wall. I cannot use the fglrx drivers as I found out recently that they only offer legacy drivers for my card now which dont run on my current distro.

      So while I agree AMD are getting better I dont think they are as perfect as you are suggesting.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by MWisBest View Post
        One of the reports you linked to reports the problem being fixed in Catalyst 12.9, and only one of the reports linked to includes at least some of the information developers need to fix an issue.
        Get out troll.
        Funnily enough, this troll right here is the same guy that reported this and other bugs: http://ati.cchtml.com/show_bug.cgi?id=699
        Yet I don't see AMD employees asking questions, thanking me for the detailed reports, or saying ANYTHING.
        You see, they don't seem to be worried at all about their customers. Even more, when asked by people trying to do something useful with their products, they reply like this: http://hashcat.net/forum/thread-1963....html#pid11414
        Some time ago AMD made a derogatory comment about hashcat-plus, they said they were not interested in our "little hash cracking program".
        about a program being used by LOTS of people, corporations and govts all over the world, that could be even used by themselves for testing, etc., and to the very same people that recommends AMD products (and even clusters of them) over nVidia.
        Talk about irony, huh?...
        But, again, why are you loving corporations? Are you getting paid for spamming this forum or something? In that case, I would understand, yeah. We all need to eat (although some people still has ethics). Otherwise, you are just another retarded fanboi.
        Last edited by asdfblah; 03-02-2013, 02:40 AM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by MWisBest View Post
          You aren't making any sense in this post. You don't want AMD because of open-source issues, yet you like Nvidia which lacks any real open-source support. Intel doesn't even have proprietary drivers on Linux, it's all open-source. The Intel APU is not faster, and I've run into issues with even recent Intel hardware (I'm talking Ivy Bridge here!) with OpenGL going as far back as OpenGL 1.3.

          I guess what I'm saying is, you are saying the Intel GPU is 3x slower than the AMD GPU but then compare the open-source driver of the AMD GPU to the Intel GPU which then makes the Intel GPU 10x faster, yet when you need performance you want an Nvidia GPU which doesn't have real open-source support. That's a very unfair comparison. Throw AMD's proprietary drivers into the mix.
          Regarding sense: http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...vs-Intel-G2xxx

          I don't like Nvidia, I prefer opensource drivers a lot. But in any case, the drivers should be stable and the hardware should perform well under them.

          If I use opensource drivers, the 2D is much worse than Intel due to EXA vs SNA and the 3D is much worse due to Intel driver working faster than AMD and even managing to deliver better overall performance on much worse hardware. But the CPU part of Ivy destroys the A8. That - staying in same price class of 70$ APU.

          If I use catalyst, well there is no point in any claim of any opensource drivers - is there? Then we compare closed source drivers vs closed source drivers - and in this case nvidia solution is more stable and has less bugs.

          So in the end, weighting all realistic components it was: AMD+Catalyst vs Intel+open drivers, 3d performance and instability vs 2d performance and stability.
          For desktop that I was targeting stability means a lot. And if my collegue decides he needs 3D performance, I can easily add 50$ nvidia card and have performance with better driver.

          I can't risk purchasing A8, I will punish myself and affect my reputation by doing that. Sure AMD started opensourcing first, but it is Intel who does the opensource driver the way its meant to be and nvidia who does the closed driver since ages the way its meant to be.

          In response you said, then "use catalyst", catalyst is completely and totally out of the question entirely. Which leads for me to "if AMD, then use ....". I wish you very best.
          Last edited by brosis; 03-02-2013, 05:39 AM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Sure I am!

            ..when I'm instaling windows 7/8 on it.

            Same with others. I bought my lappie around time when Llano came out, but still chosed Intel. Don't wanna use something barely usefull (cause I know that I WILL install linux on it). The after-effect? Well, As someone whom others consult when choosing computer, I am almost always recommend Intel. So if someday they want to install linux on theirs, It won't make them cry

            I really wish AMD open driver will someday on par with Intel (on quality)!
            Last edited by t.s.; 03-02-2013, 06:45 AM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by timothyja View Post
              Generally I like what AMD is doing. I switched from Nvidia in my desktop due to wanting to support a company that was working on open source drivers.
              Erm I think there is a typo in the second sentence...

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
                Nonsense. It is AMD's duty to release drivers that actually work and not to rely on patches from third parties.
                And the proprietary drivers work with the distros/graphics cards AMD say they support. Not to mention the FOSS ones...

                @OP
                I've been reading these fora long enough to know you'd still get 3 pages of whining if the AMD logo in the release notes was of a slightly different green colour. Nice attempt, but futile I'm afraid.
                BTW if you don't mind, could you provide some concrete examples on how the OpenGL implementation in fglrx is closer to specs than nvidia's? I've seen those claims a few times, though no real factual data on that. I think it'd help make a good case.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by PsynoKhi0 View Post
                  @OP.....
                  BTW if you don't mind, could you provide some concrete examples on how the OpenGL implementation in fglrx is closer to specs than nvidia's? I've seen those claims a few times, though no real factual data on that. I think it'd help make a good case.
                  I am obviously not an OP, but I want to comment, from what I have heard AMD OpenGL implementation is not closer to specs, but reacts different if program requests something out of specs. I heard that Nvidia will silently "eat" the code or try whatever best it can (think of HTML processing), while AMD will CTD.
                  Obviously the AMD approach is only suitable for developer, no customer will be happy about that.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MWisBest View Post
                    I don't get what you're saying. "I've been a long-time fan of AMD processors, but now with mainstream GPUs integrated into the CPU die, I do not want the hassle this would bring." If you have a Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge CPU, it most likely has an integrated GPU (I say most likely because I remember there was at least 1 model that didn't have the integrated GPU), and there isn't any hassle with it.
                    Exactly, I buy intel CPUs because of the excellent driver support for the built-in IGP.
                    Buying an AMD CPU would also mean AMD IGP, and thats something I am not very enthusiastic about.

                    Also, Intel's open-source driver is first-class because it's their only driver.
                    Sure, but to be honest I don't care whats the reason for their excellent driver, as long as its stable and fast. The 2D performance offered by the intel driver is outstanding.
                    I am not a gamer, so the Intel's OpenGL support/performance is good enough for me (heck, I can play steam games on my SNB notebook).

                    Regards

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by PsynoKhi0 View Post
                      And the proprietary drivers work with the distros/graphics cards AMD say they support. Not to mention the FOSS ones...
                      Then they should rename their drivers, because as you stated, they only support a few distros, but not Linux in general, so that you can't call it a Linux driver.
                      They should call it the Ubuntu/Red Hat/whatever driver then, calling it Linux driver is another lie from AMD.

                      It is as simple as I stated in many other posts about AMD: They don't support me and the distro I use, why should I support them? Money goes to Intel/Nvidia next time.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Vim_User View Post
                        Then they should rename their drivers, because as you stated, they only support a few distros, but not Linux in general, so that you can't call it a Linux driver.
                        They should call it the Ubuntu/Red Hat/whatever driver then, calling it Linux driver is another lie from AMD.

                        It is as simple as I stated in many other posts about AMD: They don't support me and the distro I use, why should I support them? Money goes to Intel/Nvidia next time.
                        Fine! AMD *officially* supports a predefined set of distros (the words "Pareto principle" come to mind...). The others might require patches. And? Let's nitpick some more while we're at it: Linux is a kernel, not an OS... Are we done yet with all the nonsense?

                        Other things you could actually do: maintain a patched FGLRX for your distro, switch distro, have a look at the FOSS drivers, get other AMD owners who use your distro to ask AMD for official support... See? Obviously that requires more effort than bashing that company on a forum, but hey...

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by t.s. View Post
                          ..when I'm instaling windows 7/8 on it.

                          Same with others. I bought my lappie around time when Llano came out, but still chosed Intel. Don't wanna use something barely usefull (cause I know that I WILL install linux on it). The after-effect? Well, As someone whom others consult when choosing computer, I am almost always recommend Intel. So if someday they want to install linux on theirs, It won't make them cry

                          I really wish AMD open driver will someday on par with Intel (on quality)!
                          Yeah but that won't free the code!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Just thought I'd throw in my 2c. You guys have already covered a lot, so I thought I'd throw out some observations.

                            Here's why we're whining.

                            Using a radeon card in linux is like a bad relationship. We're told of fixes to obvious bugs (poor 2d performance, bad power management, late modern kernel support), and those fixes arrive late or not at all. Don't listen to what people say, look at AMD's actions. They're doing a poor job for anyone interested in high performance graphics in linux, so move on, right? That's not easy for everyone, we don't all have the budget to buy a new graphics card, or worse, a new laptop to replace our current predicament.

                            So we whine, because we're in an involuntary relationship with AMD. We have their card and have no practical option to not use it, and AMD doesn't fix bugs that have been resolved for years in their open source drivers, and in nvidia's binary blob.

                            I'll be honest and say I haven't watched the fglrx situation since I got a laptop with an nvidia chip. That's ok though, I walked away from this waste of time. It seems to me, that unlike nvidia, all the discussions in the world don't change fglrx. The only thing I've seen move AMD is ubuntu, and even then, they have to throw out beta drivers to support the newest kernels and X servers. If things don't change, watching them support the upcoming ubuntu rolling release repository is going to be like watching a baby drown in a 3ft pool.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by PsynoKhi0 View Post
                              maintain a patched FGLRX for your distro
                              Nope, I won't do the work of AMD developers until they pay me to do their job.I have already paid for their hardware, now I should also spent my time to make it work? Why the hell should I do that?

                              switch distro
                              I have no problems with my distro, it works fine for me. What does not work fine, because of AMD's shitty driver policy, is the AMD hardware in my machines, so it simply is more logical to switch them out, not the distro.

                              have a look at the FOSS drivers
                              I am currently using the FOSS driver on my main machine, which means I have to switch to Windows to play a game with decent quality settings. Maybe that is what AMD wants, so that they have to support one OS less? On my other machine using the Foss driver is not an option, it overheats the machine, but since I don't use this machine for beta testing I have the stable version of my distro installed, with an AMD supported kernel (means kernel older than 9 months).

                              get other AMD owners who use your distro to ask AMD for official support
                              Yeah, of course, AMD limits all they can to save money, but you think they would be officially supporting Slackware. Go back to reality, they are officially supporting Ubuntu, but only as long as you aren't a beta tester, then it is the "Oh, poor boy, you will have to patch the drivers yourself, we are to lazy for that, but maybe you can tell us how it works, so that we can think about implementing it in 2-3 driver versions from now".

                              Thanks, but no thanks.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Most of the things have been covered but here are my two cents and on why i moved to nVidia last weeks.

                                To get things out in the open, i was running about all my computers AMD all over. Was running AMD on 5970 and then 6970 and also 6370 (laptop).

                                Issue 1.
                                I'm using 3 monitors so as all of the people in this world we were suffering from the mouse corruption issue that has been on Windows for couple of months but got fixed in 4 driver versions or so. Then the issue came up in Linux and it got never fixed. My bugreport is now about 2 years old almost and my discussions from AMD Tech support had not got me longer other than "we will look into this".

                                Issue 2.
                                Stability is none on the AMD drivers, In all my Computers using FGLRX i get almost every day a Xorg crash on different hardware and on different distros. My Laptop crashes 40% of the time trying to launch eve online with an Xorg infinte loop or asic hang from fglrx. Same thing on my other computer using 5970 or 6970.

                                Issue 3.
                                Introduced in Catalyst 12.8 texture issues where almost nothing got rendered in games. That got fixed in 13.2 i think but i never cared since i moved from AMD at this point.

                                All in all I never had a proper shutdown with Catalyst on my computer. It always ended with a Xorg crash. Now I have moved to nVidia Zotac 670 AMP and nVidia 620M (Optimus) and not _once_ have Xorg crashed. Also it supports latest kernels and Xorg my Arch Linux so i don't have to create special archived repos for it to stop Xorg from upgrading because AMD is lazy. I'm not saying that nVidia is a walk in the park but at least you get help from their developers (plagman & aplattner) on their forums or @ freenode on #nvidia if you run into issues.

                                I'm not telling everyone is having this but this is my experience with AMD and nVidia. Also as a note have anyone seen any representatives from AMD on the Steam Github on their driver issues because i cannot find one.... (but maybe i'm not looking enough)
                                I will maybe move back to AMD at some point but looking how AMD handles Linux at this point that will never happen. Opensource? Awesome, but when the blob can barely stand on its crippled legs and the opensource driver support is so sub par in 3D rendering and features, no thank you i had used enough of my free time to track down issues to the fglrx blob.
                                Last edited by Commander; 03-18-2013, 08:03 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X