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  • Originally posted by Michael View Post
    Xipeos and Opera, do I have to tell you two to stop fighting?
    Let me just summarize the flaws of the assumptions Xipeos has of me. After all, he's lying about Me, which is a bit out of the ordinary, and not really suitable here. And, he's making some tasteless comments on me, personally.

    Originally posted by Xipeos View Post
    Don't judge a driver by it's version. Someone suggested the 8.41 means the 41 release of the 8th year. Not everyone is using the same versioning system as the kernel devs.
    Have I ever said that everyone is using the same "versioning system" (versioning system is a tool, like CVS, SVN, gif. Maybe you meant version practice/model/scheme) as the kernel devs?
    Even the linux kernel has changed versioning scheme over the years.

    But to the facts; I'd be surprised to see any program being heavily rewritten from version x.yz into x.y[z+1]. I've never seen it before, but some time should be the first time, they say.

    Originally posted by Xipeos View Post
    Of course you can opera. A couple of dedicated programmers can do it in...two weeks? wtf do you know?! You're just an angry user.
    * Two weeks? Let's say the ATI source tree would be (I'm just making a guess) at least 20 Mb. To just analyze and get used to the code, would take several weeks.
    * Two weeks would be a suitable last test-period from last Release Candidate to Release. Why do I know this?:
    * No, I'm not an angry user. I'm a programmer. Have been for a decade. Been developing in several languages on DOS/Win32/Linux, mostly in C and C++.

    I would like to know where you get the idea that someone could port a newly released ATI driver to RandR 1.2 in two weeks (and not have something extremely broken and buggy and only worth a complete re-write or two).
    Have you even once written a single line of code? It doesn't sound like it. Your immature view on open source, seems the equal on programming in general.

    Originally posted by Xipeos View Post
    EDIT: you don't have to re-write the whole driver for randr. You can just build an interface that translates randr requests to DDM (like wine and cedega do with their compatibility layer).
    FYI: I'm currently (not too much though, since I'm on a tight schedule) working on RandR 1.2-support for the open source Avivo-driver. To make something like that really work, means to get used to large parts of the driver, but perhaps even more time needs to get used to the X.org source tree which is absolutely huge.
    Just making your first build of X.org succeed takes a lot of time.

    Originally posted by Xipeos View Post
    You'd do it for yourself. You can pay yourself if you want to... (but then again, you're just an angry user, not a programmer (?) )
    Am I supposed to answer this? Pay myself? Are you high?

    Originally posted by Xipeos View Post
    Can't take a little challenge, you wuss?
    I can't recall when this discussion, beginning with my rather well-based (by experience) skepticism of ATI's drivers ever needed to become this hostile.
    You lost the discussion, please, do it gracefully.
    This is tasteless.
    I have my challenge already, and it lies in Avivo, and I'm probably failing there since I haven't touched that code in a few weeks.

    Originally posted by Xipeos View Post
    Again with the wussing. As of now, we know very little about AMD's open-source initiative. And even if they shifted all the work on us, it would be much better then what we had so far. They way I remember it, *many* people were asking for the shift (even you - "give it to x.org hackers" remember?!)
    I very much prefer to be skeptical and share my skepticism and be proven wrong with a great driver, than shouting out how I love ATI and how they will save the world, and then get yet another crappy worseless driver which doesn't run on either:
    * x86-64
    * Moderm linux versions
    * Modern X.org
    * A computer with a black metal case and a blue power light
    * In a room with only 1 window
    * Any other obscure reason

    I prefer positive surprises, over negative ones.

    Originally posted by Xipeos View Post
    Fine be skeptical, I won't comment on your bitching anymore.
    The comments you just made here, are the worst and most pathetic and tasteless I've seen in a long time. You probably shouldn't have sunk this low.

    Comment


    • Look you two, just end it and stop fighting. There's no point to it. If you two think that fighting is the mature way of handling things, go create a new thread in the general discussion but don't taint this thread or any other on-topic ones.
      Michael Larabel
      http://www.michaellarabel.com/

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Michael View Post
        Look you two, just end it and stop fighting. There's no point to it. If you two think that fighting is the mature way of handling things, go create a new thread in the general discussion but don't taint this thread or any other on-topic ones.
        Fine. Title: "The New Driver Is Out". *sounding like Peter when Cleveland says it's gonna be fun, s06e18*: It is?

        Comment


        • @opera:

          You have every right to be skeptical about the new driver. For the last years, ATI has done everything to disappoint Linux users. They just have to earn back our trust by actually publishing a better driver instead of just talking about it.

          But please stop turning this thread into an private war against people who just haven't learned to distinguish between marketing talk and facts.

          Comment


          • As a former ATI owner, who jumped boat just because of the many driver issues, with the release of the information and numbers of the Phoronix articles in regards to fglrx 8.41, I must say I'm excited again about ATI on Linux. I don't know if I'll jump boat just yet, but definitely news worth keeping an eye on.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Stormking View Post
              @opera:

              You have every right to be skeptical about the new driver. For the last years, ATI has done everything to disappoint Linux users. They just have to earn back our trust by actually publishing a better driver instead of just talking about it.

              But please stop turning this thread into an private war against people who just haven't learned to distinguish between marketing talk and facts.

              Careful Stormking

              In the beginning, all I said was "wait till the driver's out", and any statement on ati's greatness was based on Michael's preview. I sincerely doubt that Michael is lying to us.
              Last edited by Xipeos; 09-06-2007, 10:59 AM. Reason: were to was

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Xipeos View Post
                Careful, Stormking

                In the beginning, all I said was "wait till the driver's out", and any statements on ati's greatness were based on Michael's preview. I sincerely doubt Michael is lying to us.
                I am certainly not lying to you about any of the information in any of the articles. I or no one else involved with Phoronix would ever do that. I have been using and testing this driver MANY times since July when I first began trying out this new driver. It is certainly a brand new experience on the ATI Linux front.

                This afternoon I am publishing Mark Shuttleworth's thoughts on ATI's new Linux driver as well.
                Michael Larabel
                http://www.michaellarabel.com/

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Xipeos View Post
                  I sincerely doubt that Michael is lying to us.
                  I don't think he's lying, too. But there could be differences in our opinions on what is an actual improvement.

                  For example: If XVideo on TV-Out still isn't working with 8.41, I'm done with ATI. This bug has been there for 20 months (!!!) , now. It worked before. I just can believe how anyone can break such an important feature and not fix it for such a long time!

                  Comment


                  • Maybe he should delay Gutsy till the AIGLX driver Waiting for that too... I am no real friend of the restricted modules package used in U. It should be splitted between optional graphics drivers and the rest as it would be much cleaner just to remove the outdated drivers completely. But when you need one of the other modules to go online that would be not so good...

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                    • Originally posted by niniendowarrior View Post
                      Yes... always the skeptical one. You are right to be skeptical. I do hope the driver is true because it's sad for everyone to be built up based on false promises.
                      Heh... I've reasons to be skeptical. You do. Opera does (Heh... I'd offer advice to chill, but Michael's already done it...twice...). In the end, it's all about what have you done so far and what will you do in the future. If they do what Michael's implying they're about to do, AMD will make up for much of the wrongs of the company they bought.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Stormking View Post
                        This bug has been there for 20 months (!!!) , now. It worked before. I just can believe how anyone can break such an important feature and not fix it for such a long time!
                        Considering that they've not put much of any manpower on fixing/extending the Linux drivers for the old codebase, it's not at all surprising that something like this can go that way for so long. It's no different with Hypermemory. Without at least the dedicated portion of the Sideport/Hypermemory on an Xpress200M chipset, the chips as bad or worse than an Intel GMA 9xx part. They had THAT working right back ages ago, broke it, and never fixed it.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Michael View Post
                          This afternoon I am publishing Mark Shuttleworth's thoughts on ATI's new Linux driver as well.
                          Heh... All you're doing is making me regret that I've not been in touch with my DevRel contacts over there to have had access to the betas at this point. That'll learn me, it will...

                          My take would be...

                          1) It's about time.
                          2) Great job AMD.
                          3) Keep doing it.
                          4) This is going to only help Linux Gaming and Workstation use.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                            Considering that they've not put much of any manpower on fixing/extending the Linux drivers for the old codebase
                            I don't care if something like this happens because they haven't enough manpower or if they are simply incompetent. I'm not interested in excuses, I want results. Meaning a driver that lets me use the features of the hardware I bought.

                            Originally posted by Svartalf View Post
                            it's not at all surprising that something like this can go that way for so long
                            It's not "not surprising", it's simply unacceptable.

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                            • Originally posted by Stormking View Post
                              I don't care if something like this happens because they haven't enough manpower or if they are simply incompetent. I'm not interested in excuses, I want results. Meaning a driver that lets me use the features of the hardware I bought.
                              Heh... That's why AMD was seeing the vitriol we were saving up JUST for ATI... >:-) I happen to hold the same attitude. I just wanted to make clear WHY this mess was the way it was.

                              It's not "not surprising", it's simply unacceptable.
                              Won't have me arguing that point. Read some of my commentary in the recent past in the threads on the subject. I don't consider the lack of AIGLX, XVideo, Hypermemory, and a few other things as acceptable- you will never find me thinking them anything other than unacceptable.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Stormking View Post
                                I'm not interested in excuses, I want results. Meaning a driver that lets me use the features of the hardware I bought.

                                It's not "not surprising", it's simply unacceptable.
                                Of course, Stormking, we all want working hardware.

                                I'd much more understand if a linux newbie complained about hardware support, but for you veterans it's really surprising. Even more so, considering that big companies only "recently" started caring about linux.

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