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linux, the very weak system for gaming

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  • #91
    Originally posted by gens View Post
    bait?

    i feel dirty just by replying to this

    point im trying to make is an old one that linux is still for "tehnical" people, but its getting really close to being really good for anybody
    and people like GUI's and find a console confusing if not frightening to use
    and that you need to know it good if something goes wrong
    and theres a lot more chance something will go wrong on linux(if you dont believe me try installing official radeon drivers on a couple of laptops, that is the most common problem(as i read nvidia aint far from it))

    now to let my feelings get in the way of objectiveness:

    you sir Dopamine should compare the quality of mine and your posts in this tread
    if you look closely you'l see mine are more objective and faaaaar less condescending(that is until you tainted my name with "you dont know shit" comments)
    if you dont like people drawing parallels with your nickname, dont choose something related to the brain, sex nor religion and similar things; especially if you dont know the meaning of it
    dont treat people like they dont know something just because you want to teach someone some new thing you learned, unless they say stuff that shows they want to know but dont understand
    and dont ever use localisms on an international forum, its just not nice

    oh, and learning disk ISO disk image standards just to mount some image is yours to learn, i did it a long time ago and found acetoneiso is much simpler and dosent require me to google "how to mount this tipe of image using console in linux" and such
    althou i like console stuff for their low requirements making them not in the way(i use over 3 console programs daily) they are rarely user friendly(at least to learn to use, user friendliness of console programs is debatable)good i almost finished my math, didnt wanna post here no more anyway
    quality of your posts? you just post shit on a shit thread about how linux is a weak gaming platform? I only give this thread the time of day as its in the catalyst section of the forums

    my point was 'there is even a gui for mounting iso images' something that can be done with THE MOST SIMPLE of bash commands - and yeh ok that wont work with a bin/cue/nrg/whatever image but how hard is running bin2iso beforehand

    go back to windows gens along with all your 'new to linux' friends demanding 'user friendlyness' - the devs actually listen to the likes of you and produce shite like gnome 3 then i get pissed off then subsequently walk the earth thwarting bullshitters

    GNU/Linux ( yes the GNU part is very important ) is for everyone to use - old and young, stupid and non-stupid and the technical and non technical however it is not windows and does require a slight effort in learning - as did windows when you first tried that. On the plus side this isn't difficult at all and will only improve you as a person to sit for two hours learning.

    If someone is unwilling or unable to learn and wants a drop in replacement for windows move along - windows it aint

    and P.S. I use whatever distro is in front of me - at work centos/redhat/debian/gentoo (and even to my shame osx) and at play debian/gentoo/mint/ubuntu

    haha quality of your posts - what a bell-end!

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by D0pamine View Post
      quality of your posts? you just post shit on a shit thread about how linux is a weak gaming platform? I only give this thread the time of day as its in the catalyst section of the forums

      my point was 'there is even a gui for mounting iso images' something that can be done with THE MOST SIMPLE of bash commands - and yeh ok that wont work with a bin/cue/nrg/whatever image but how hard is running bin2iso beforehand

      go back to windows gens along with all your 'new to linux' friends demanding 'user friendlyness' - the devs actually listen to the likes of you and produce shite like gnome 3 then i get pissed off then subsequently walk the earth thwarting bullshitters

      GNU/Linux ( yes the GNU part is very important ) is for everyone to use - old and young, stupid and non-stupid and the technical and non technical however it is not windows and does require a slight effort in learning - as did windows when you first tried that. On the plus side this isn't difficult at all and will only improve you as a person to sit for two hours learning.

      If someone is unwilling or unable to learn and wants a drop in replacement for windows move along - windows it aint

      and P.S. I use whatever distro is in front of me - at work centos/redhat/debian/gentoo (and even to my shame osx) and at play debian/gentoo/mint/ubuntu

      haha quality of your posts - what a bell-end!
      if you have taken your time to actually read what i wrote, you could have concluded i use the console alot
      i also use linux for gaming, but not all games run playable on it due to missing functionality in wine or just bugs mostly caused by the game being made on a different system
      (no system/program is bug free(lies, maybe cat is but it uses glibc so...)

      as a fact im running slackware that has almost no gui configuration and use daily rtorrent, irssi, ssh and mocp mostly on fluxbox
      i also connect to the wireless network using iwconfig and dhcpcd in a simple script
      also i compile a lot of things that dont have slackbuilds myself and work out the dependancies and errors on them myself

      my friend on the other hand is bad at english, not because he dosent want to learn, but because he just sux at foreign languages
      and i almost never find documentation in croatian

      you might have noted if you weren't that mad about me insulting your intelligence, that i mentioned windows not because it is better but because its simpler to make a shortcut
      again, if your read what i wrote you'd notice me saying theres plenty of places where some open source DE is better

      for the sake of objectiveness you must not have prejudice
      windows is a more competent operating system then people think, and im not defending it as i hope it fails horribly in the future

      as for gnome going touchscreen, im my opinion its bad
      but thats my opinion and im not the one to force my opinion on anyone, let alone some devs that worked hard to make what they like(or what their paid for)

      i agree with you the GNU part is important as without a compiler and basic tools there woud be no kernel to run the system
      and even thou i respect the GNU people, i wont call it GNU/Linux because Stallman is forcing freedom onto others and thats just ironic (i have the freedom to call it just linux?)
      but i respect Stallman for other things and will mention GNU when appropriate

      now my dear Dopamine, please me and dont answer if you dont read and think about what i wrote first
      otherwise its just trolling that made me break my word of not replying
      Last edited by gens; 08-27-2012, 08:30 AM.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by gens View Post
        if you have taken your time to actually read what i wrote, you could have concluded i use the console alot
        i also use linux for gaming, but not all games run playable on it due to missing functionality in wine or just bugs mostly caused by the game being made on a different system
        (no system/program is bug free(lies, maybe cat is but it uses glibc so...)

        as a fact im running slackware that has almost no gui configuration and use daily rtorrent, irssi, ssh and mocp mostly on fluxbox
        i also connect to the wireless network using iwconfig and dhcpcd in a simple script
        also i compile a lot of things that dont have slackbuilds myself and work out the dependancies and errors on them myself

        my friend on the other hand is bad at english, not because he dosent want to learn, but because he just sux at foreign languages
        and i almost never find documentation in croatian

        you might have noted if you weren't that mad about me insulting your intelligence, that i mentioned windows not because it is better but because its simpler to make a shortcut
        again, if your read what i wrote you'd notice me saying theres plenty of places where some open source DE is better

        for the sake of objectiveness you must not have prejudice
        windows is a more competent operating system then people think, and im not defending it as i hope it fails horribly in the future

        as for gnome going touchscreen, im my opinion its bad
        but thats my opinion and im not the one to force my opinion on anyone, let alone some devs that worked hard to make what they like(or what their paid for)

        i agree with you the GNU part is important as without a compiler and basic tools there woud be no kernel to run the system
        and even thou i respect the GNU people, i wont call it GNU/Linux because Stallman is forcing freedom onto others and thats just ironic (i have the freedom to call it just linux?)
        but i respect Stallman for other things and will mention GNU when appropriate

        now my dear Dopamine, please me and dont answer if you dont read and think about what i wrote first
        otherwise its just trolling that made me break my word of not replying

        read it - still and you're still a tosser

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by D0pamine View Post
          read it - still and you're still a tosser
          anger and prejudice, sad thing is you'l probably be a rich man when you grow up (and thats not sarcastically meant)

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by gens View Post
            anger and prejudice, sad thing is you'l probably be a rich man when you grow up (and thats not sarcastically meant)
            i'm 36 and i'm not angry

            Comment


            • #96
              so tell me what did i write wrong
              (except insulting your nickname and a small but loud part of the gentoo community(mind that i like the gentoo idea, and dont think that of the whole community))

              i like linux a lot too, its been my hobby for years now
              but calling it perfect is just...

              and whats wrong with having 50 programs doing the same thing
              some people like CLI, some dont (funny thing is out of all the programs translated to my language, almost all are grafical and most of those are parts of a big DE)
              smart thing would be writing a console program while thinking ahead that someone might write a gui for it, but again open source is about freedom

              and on topic:
              fact is almost all games are made for windows(dot)
              thus windows is best for gaming (i dont like it either, but its the truth)

              and too lighten up a little a quote:

              Every program has at least one bug and can be shortened by at least one
              instruction -- from which, by induction, one can deduce that every program
              can be reduced to one instruction which doesn't work.
              Last edited by gens; 08-27-2012, 10:03 AM.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by gens View Post
                so tell me what did i write wrong
                (except insulting your nickname and a small but loud part of the gentoo community(mind that i like the gentoo idea, and dont think that of the whole community))

                i like linux a lot too, its been my hobby for years now
                but calling it perfect is just...

                and whats wrong with having 50 programs doing the same thing
                some people like CLI, some dont (funny thing is out of all the programs translated to my language, almost all are grafical and most of those are parts of a big DE)
                smart thing would be writing a console program while thinking ahead that someone might write a gui for it, but again open source is about freedom

                and on topic:
                fact is almost all games are made for windows(dot)
                thus windows is best for gaming (i dont like it either, but its the truth)
                i think windows 'is best for gaming' is for vendor lock in reasons rather than technical reasons - isnt left for dead already outperforming the windows client by 30%

                i can name at least half a dozen examples of where this is true

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by D0pamine View Post
                  i think windows 'is best for gaming' is for vendor lock in reasons rather than technical reasons - isnt left for dead already outperforming the windows client by 30%

                  i can name at least half a dozen examples of where this is true
                  i can name a game or two that runs better then on windows, but i can name a lot of games that dont
                  and as i read that is mostly true for nvidia cards(i also read a few games that run better on ati, but its really rare)

                  also l4d2 runs faster on a monster computer with monster nvidia card that rarely anyone can afford (and its 30fps out of 300, not 30%)
                  but as i stated few posts back that wont be true for my computer as it is CPU/memory limited, not GPU
                  (opengl 4.2 and above can lift a lot of work from the cpu to gpu, but again those cards are expensive and idk a game engine that uses it)

                  and yes i as everybody else agree on the vendor thing
                  stiring up dust is a good way to show the vendors that we give them money for linux native games, but they arnt dumb, they calculate if its worth it to port a game
                  linux for gaming will skyrocket when cheap consoles come out running the awsomly portable linux, valve is bit advanced on that part

                  again, i like valve, but big companies are never to be trusted
                  il trust them till a first mistake (althou not supporting LAN should be considered a big mistake)
                  Last edited by gens; 08-27-2012, 10:31 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by gens View Post
                    i can name a game or two that runs better then on windows, but i can name a lot of games that dont
                    and as i read that is mostly true for nvidia cards(i also read a few games that run better on ati, but its really rare)

                    also l4d2 runs faster on a monster computer with monster nvidia card that rarely anyone can afford (and its 30fps out of 300, not 30%)
                    but as i stated few posts back that wont be true for my computer as it is CPU/memory limited, not GPU
                    (opengl 4.2 and above can lift a lot of work from the cpu to gpu, but again those cards are expensive and idk a game engine that uses it)

                    and yes i as everybody else agree on the vendor thing
                    stiring up dust is a good way to show the vendors that we give them money for linux native games, but they arnt dumb, they calculate if its worth it to port a game
                    linux for gaming will skyrocket when cheap consoles come out running the awsomly portable linux, valve is bit advanced on that part

                    again, i like valve, but big companies are never to be trusted
                    il trust them till a first mistake (althou not supporting LAN should be considered a big mistake)
                    There is no need to use steam - there are lots of free(dom) games that are great fun, wz2100, darkplaces, xonotix ( or whatever its called now ), cube2 and so on. That said steam would make a nice addition to my xbmc htpc

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by D0pamine View Post
                      There is no need to use steam - there are lots of free(dom) games that are great fun, wz2100, darkplaces, xonotix ( or whatever its called now ), cube2 and so on. That said steam would make a nice addition to my xbmc htpc
                      xonotic(darkplaces is the engine it runs on) is more or less the only game i play now that im finding other things more fun

                      Lord Havoc, Divverent, Vortex and others are doing a great job updating it
                      but keeping up with modern game engines from big companies takes a lot of effort

                      still kudos to the devs, and xonotic is a great game that runs on it, kudos to xon devs too

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tweenk View Post
                        The problem here is the closed-source driver, not the change in kernel API. Do not upgrade your kernel if your closed-source driver supplier does not support it. If you don't want the driver supplier to prevent you from kernel upgrades, convince them to release an open-source driver.
                        And this is the reason no one develops for Linux: Developers will not constantly upgrade their SW because people like you feel the need to constantly re-write the Kernel API's. Then people are stuck choosing between either an old, underperforming Kernel, or unsupported HW. Then, they give up and go back to Windows.

                        What if some API function turns out later to be poorly designed / unsafe / not general enough? By never removing any functions you prevent the removal of cruft as well as a good deal of improvement.
                        Mark it as unsafe. Kernel API calls should RARELY be removed, due to compatability reasons. The only time you can make an argument for doing so is in the case where you re-write the entire API from scratch [which I again note should be done very rarely, with VERY close support from the hardware devs].

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by gamerk2 View Post
                          And this is the reason no one develops for Linux: Developers will not constantly upgrade their SW because people like you feel the need to constantly re-write the Kernel API's. Then people are stuck choosing between either an old, underperforming Kernel, or unsupported HW. Then, they give up and go back to Windows.



                          Mark it as unsafe. Kernel API calls should RARELY be removed, due to compatability reasons. The only time you can make an argument for doing so is in the case where you re-write the entire API from scratch [which I again note should be done very rarely, with VERY close support from the hardware devs].
                          1.) kernel don't drastically change the API every 2 days and this phenomenom normally need 3 major revisions[3.2, 3.3, 3.4, 3.5<this last break api] so is not as extreme as you make it sound.

                          2.)linux kernel do the same thing than any other kernel API/ABI cycle, linux is just much faster in its release cycle than the others.

                          3.)thruth be told packaging blob drivers is distro responsability since no one in kernel.org expect ppl to use the great and latest without a very high technical level to begin with.

                          4.) distros problem is that is really hard to package this blobs correctly[even when using an LTS kernel] due to their alien nature against the OS, so most of the time this frankestein breakage arent actually kernel changes but the packages breaking or users trying to get the latest drivers from external sources due to the distros slow updates for blobs that normally ends badly.

                          5.) sure there are ways to improve the situation like modularize the kernel [drivers and kernel] and provide an intermediate API between drivers and kernel. in fact you can even fix some issues allowing userspace driver[bluetooth, usb, i2c, pmbus, any low bandwith/latency hardware/sensors]/ kernel drivers[sata/GPU/Raid/scsi/vritualization, the big fat boys] and hybrid drivers[input/dvb/sound/etc] <-- is a titanic job but can be of benefit for stuff like security and stability and if done well drivers API/ABI stability for longer periods of time

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                          • Comment


                            • Originally posted by gens View Post
                              let me see you mount a .bin image like that
                              Pick me!
                              cdemu load 0 image.cue

                              Also works with toc's and cue's with isos/mp3s/oggs/etc.

                              Just had to go through the pain of trying to figure out mixed mode cd images on linux and everyone telling me to just use X windows program, so I thought I'd share.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Post
                                1.) kernel don't drastically change the API every 2 days and this phenomenom normally need 3 major revisions[3.2, 3.3, 3.4, 3.5<this last break api] so is not as extreme as you make it sound.
                                But it exists. Hardware makers do NOT like to constantly have to update their drivers, especially since a lot of HW is sold for years at a time.

                                2.)linux kernel do the same thing than any other kernel API/ABI cycle, linux is just much faster in its release cycle than the others.
                                My question is why the API is in need of constant changes [specifically, removes].

                                3.)thruth be told packaging blob drivers is distro responsability since no one in kernel.org expect ppl to use the great and latest without a very high technical level to begin with.
                                So you are basically saying: "Non-geeks do not apply". General users are going to download/install the latest version of SW, period. If they then find their HW doesn't work, guess who's fault that is?

                                4.) distros problem is that is really hard to package this blobs correctly[even when using an LTS kernel] due to their alien nature against the OS, so most of the time this frankestein breakage arent actually kernel changes but the packages breaking or users trying to get the latest drivers from external sources due to the distros slow updates for blobs that normally ends badly.
                                "alien nature"? Drivers are the correct way for devices to talk to the OS; thats how it SHOULD be done. The API is the interface from which they do this, so all devices can code to one standard.

                                If drivers can't be packaged easily with the OS, then either the packaging system or the OS [or both] is faulty. Stop complaining then and fix it.

                                5.) sure there are ways to improve the situation like modularize the kernel [drivers and kernel] and provide an intermediate API between drivers and kernel. in fact you can even fix some issues allowing userspace driver[bluetooth, usb, i2c, pmbus, any low bandwith/latency hardware/sensors]/ kernel drivers[sata/GPU/Raid/scsi/vritualization, the big fat boys] and hybrid drivers[input/dvb/sound/etc] <-- is a titanic job but can be of benefit for stuff like security and stability and if done well drivers API/ABI stability for longer periods of time
                                But doesn't those difficulties prehaps point to more underlying problems with the overall system architecture?

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