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People incorrectly assume that AMD drivers suck. They don't.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
    Even nVidia employees confirm that can not be TearFree
    False.

    Quoting ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Li...ausupport.html:
    The overlay path is guaranteed never to tear, whereas the blit method is classed as "best effort".

    Comment


    • #32
      I'll fix quote of my message for you:
      Originally posted by Gusar View Post
      Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
      Even TearFree video playback under compositing environment with nVidia proprietary drivers? Not likely. Even nVidia employees confirm that can not be TearFree
      False.
      You are fail:
      The overlay path is guaranteed never to tear, whereas the blit method is classed as "best effort".
      ...
      The following conditions or system configurations will prevent usage of the overlay path:
      • Overlay hardware already in use, e.g. by another VDPAU, GL, or X11 application, or by SDI output.
      • Desktop rotation enabled on the given X screen.
      • The presentation target window is redirected, due to a compositing manager actively running.
      • The environment variable VDPAU_NVIDIA_NO_OVERLAY is set to a string representation of a non-zero integer.
      • The driver determines that the performance requirements of overlay usage cannot be met by the current hardware configuration.
      Now confirmed not by nVidia employees, but by nVidia properietary driver documentation. Thank you for this link.

      Comment


      • #33
        Err, dude... You said tear-free can not be. But the documentation says "best effort". That doesn't mean it can't be, it just means there's no guarantee. No guarantee != can not be. No guarantee = you might be tear-free, but you might not.

        So the fail is 100% you.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Gusar View Post
          Err, dude... You said tear-free can not be. But the documentation says "best effort". That doesn't mean it can't be, it just means there's no guarantee. No guarantee != can not be. No guarantee = you might be tear-free, but you might not.
          I have enough GeForce's and I done enough testing to say "it can not be" (under compositing environment).

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
            I have enough GeForce's and I done enough testing to say "it can not be" (under compositing environment).
            You also say hardware video decoding doesn't work on Ironlake, but I have no problem whatsoever with that. So what you say does not have much (if any) merit.

            Besides, the discussion was that the Nvidia devs supposedly said tear-free video in a composited environment can not be. Which is false.
            Last edited by Gusar; 07-29-2012, 09:46 AM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Gusar View Post
              You also say hardware video decoding doesn't work on Ironlake, but I have no problem whatsoever with that.
              You never test it with BD-Remux as I remember.
              Originally posted by Gusar View Post
              Besides, the discussion was that the Nvidia devs supposedly said tear-free video in a composited environment can not be. Which is false.
              Sure, they never say "our drivers in fact sucks here", instead they said "our driver maybe suck here".

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
                You never test it with BD-Remux as I remember.
                I tested 1080p, I mentioned that on some other thread some time later. It wasn't from a Blu-ray though. So if you're still not satisfied, link to a sample. I'm not going to download 40GB of stuff, but if you provide a smaller sample of a Blu-ray video, I'll run it.

                Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
                Sure, they never say "our drivers in fact sucks here", instead they said "our driver maybe suck here".
                Dude, why can't you just accept that your initial statement was false, and that someone in fact doesn't have tearing, instead of writing this nonsense? It doesn't help your credibility, it's nothing more than trolling.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Gusar View Post
                  I'm not going to download 40GB of stuff, but if you provide a smaller sample of a Blu-ray video, I'll run it.
                  I doesn't check this one, but you may try to google for "Pole to Pole mkv".
                  Originally posted by Gusar View Post
                  Dude, why can't you just accept that your initial statement was false, and that someone in fact doesn't have tearing
                  Because different people may notice tearing, or may doesn't notice it. If someone doesn't see tearing (and need special samples that expose issue) that doesn't mean there is no tearing.

                  You know, it's like high-frequency squeak (I hope it's right English term) defect in audio stream, or incorrect color space conversion in video - most of people doesn't notice such problems, but it doesn't make such problems doesn't exist.
                  Last edited by RussianNeuroMancer; 07-29-2012, 10:53 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    There are some arguments that simply aren't worth having. All that one needs to do to demonstrate the current driver conundrum is:

                    1: Install Ubuntu
                    2: Install a humble bundle
                    3: Run each game in the bundle.

                    I assure you that regardless of manufacturer, model, and OSS/BLOB, you will find several issues. Missing resolutions, tearing, crashing, missing/mangled textures, lock on exit, difficulty entering/leaving fullscreen, and performance issues are just the beginning.

                    This often leaves the user with the impression that "nothing fucking works", and tends to lead to everyone believing that the drivers suck. We understand that the issue could be caused by our choice of WM, by the driver, by the game itself, or by one of the underlying libraries (SDL). One great example is that my Super-duper RAT7 mouse was causing performance issues due to Compiz syncing with the mouse's high sample rate. Lowering my mouse sample rate fixed my OGL performance issue.

                    It is just easier to blame the driver since we do not really have a first tier support system. We can file bugs with Canonical, but the response typically falls far short of anything resembling a resolution.

                    On the other hand, graphics card drivers (both OSS and Blob) fall far short of their potential in terms of performance, features, and stability. How anyone could state the contrary with a straight face really shakes my confidence in this corner of the linux ecosystem. There will never be a linux desktop until these perception issues are resolved, especially considering someone can simply go and purchase a Mac and see what a Desktop should be.

                    What would make this a great post is if I actually had a solution for any of the issues.

                    F

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by russofris View Post
                      especially considering someone can simply go and purchase a Mac and see what a Desktop should be.
                      Try to search for latest news about upgrade 10.7 to 10.8. A lot of software doesn't work anymore, even some OS functions stop working. Oh, by the way: simple page scrolling in web-browser on latest MacBook with Retina give FPS below 30. I doesn't think this is what a Desktop should be.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
                        I doesn't check this one, but you may try to google for "Pole to Pole mkv".
                        Provide a direct link, please. I'm in no mood to trawl through cyberlocker indexers before getting to a valid link. Can even be a torrent if need be, though you should probably give that one in a PM.

                        Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
                        Because different people may notice tearing, or may doesn't notice it. If someone doesn't see tearing (and need special samples that expose issue) that doesn't mean there is no tearing.
                        That's actually a valid argument. Why do you always have to go through several posts of trolling before you make a valid point? Though there's still the part where you were wrong about the Nvidia devs.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
                          Try to search for latest news about upgrade 10.7 to 10.8. A lot of software doesn't work anymore, even some OS functions stop working. Oh, by the way: simple page scrolling in web-browser on latest MacBook with Retina give FPS below 30. I doesn't think this is what a Desktop should be.
                          I would, but all of my issues have already been resolved by Applecare. You see, Mac users don't have to "search for the latest news" when we have an issue. We simply call Applecare. It's a completely different ecosystem and philosophy.

                          Fans running at 100% all the time? Call Applecare.
                          Superdrive making a motorboat sound? Call Applecare.
                          Batman AA crashes? Call Applecare.
                          Keyframe animation borked in Finalcut? Call Applecare
                          Font have a kerning issue? Call Applecare

                          I find the majority of Mac-whine-blogs out there are customers that have recently migrated from the PC world, and do not yet have an understanding of how the Apple support model works. This is not to say that their issues don't exist or are invalid, but that that are choosing to whine rather than accept the assistance that they paid for.

                          F

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Gusar View Post
                            I'm in no mood
                            Direct link special for you.
                            Originally posted by Gusar View Post
                            Why do you always have to go through several posts of trolling
                            Oh my, then "I'm in no mood" is trolling too.
                            Originally posted by Gusar View Post
                            before you make a valid point?
                            Because this valid point is obvious. Honestly, I can't image someone can not understand such simple things.

                            Originally posted by russofris View Post
                            I would, but all of my issues have already been resolved by Applecare. You see, Mac users don't have to "search for the latest news" when we have an issue. We simply call Applecare. It's a completely different ecosystem and philosophy.
                            Okay, let's take a look at this thread: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3203487
                            First post:
                            I have problem with wake up from sleep.
                            when i just use my mac, it works normaly
                            but after wake from sleep, graphic performance
                            down to about half.

                            for example i got 70 fps around. in WOW.
                            after wake, it drops to 20 fps around.
                            Cinebench 11.5 shows 16fps after wake.
                            but 30 fps from first reboot condition.

                            Mac is 2008 2.8 octacore with Radeon 5770
                            lion looks heavy than SL. more heavy feeling to
                            click something. it reacting bit slowly than SL
                            and this made feel heavy. please fix this problems.
                            Latest post:
                            A year later, 10.7.4, and this is still an issue. Seriously Apple?
                            No, Apple support is doesn't work as you think.
                            Last edited by RussianNeuroMancer; 07-29-2012, 12:21 PM. Reason: Add answer to russofris message

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Rallos Zek View Post
                              From a post taken of Slashdot...



                              http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.p...7&cid=40776403

                              I seen posts and blogs about this issue before, stuff written for Nvidia hardware sucks on AMD/Intel hardware cause Nvidia cares not about specs and correctness, just speed and hacks in their OpenGL stack.


                              Thoughts?
                              There are reasons Nvidia's "The way it is meant to be played" campaign is oft referred to as "The Way it was meant to be code sabotaged"

                              Put bluntly, Nvidia makes semi-decent hardware. The performance per watt ratio is generally awful, and the feature per die space ratio also leaves something to be desired when compared to competitor products from XGI, ATi, ATi/AMD, Via/S3, SiS, Matrox, PowerVR, Trident, Intel, and even going back to 3DFX.

                              Pub bluntly, Nvidia makes awful drivers and software development kits.

                              Nvidia loves to leverage proprietary OpenGL calls, the most famous possibly being UltraShadow as used in the IDTech3 engine. Nvidia's love of non-standard graphics calls were one of the reasons City of Heroes never ran right on AMD/ATi graphics cards. People on the CoH forums loved to complain that the problem was the ATi/AMD drivers... but ATi/AMD was not the culprit. Nvidia's deliberate code level sabotage was the culprit.

                              Nvidia loves proprietary / non-free development. We've already heard about the business contracts lost because Nvidia has no open-source strategy. Yes, let us be clear here, Nvidia-GLX is not an open-source strategy. Nvidia has already been called out by the /Linux kernel developers and the Linux Foundation... and managed to get itself branded as the worst company the Linux Foundation had ever worked with; including a very explicit "Fuck You" from Linus T. himself.

                              * * *

                              What Nvidia does have... is marketshare: http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

                              As of June 2102 Nvidia based cards make up over 47% of the graphics cards used by those participating in the Steam Survey.

                              Nvidia tends to wield this marketshare like a club, using it to force developers to use Nvidia SDK's and Nvidia products when developing commercial games. The result is the code-level sabotage in recent games like Batman: Arkham Asylum and Arkham City.

                              The result is a Microsoft-like cycle. People buy Nvidia cards because Nvidia has marketshare and that marketshare results in software that is written to perform better on Nvidia hardware: Which fuels the marketshare.

                              By the same token. People who use Nvidia cards on /Linux do not do so because they support /Linux development or open-source ideals... and if you say do ... you do not. End of Story. Can it Deary.

                              To be blunt, if you support /Linux development or open-source ideals, you would not be using Nvidia cards at all. You would be using either Intel or AMD cards on x86-platforms.

                              Developers who implement software applications that make calls to Nvidia API's generally do so because, again, Marketshare.

                              * * *

                              Admittedly both Microsoft and Khronos have taken steps to reign in Nvidia's shenanigans. DirectX 11, OpenGL 3.x, and OpenGL 4.x have stricter definitions for supported calls, as well as supporting more functions in the core specification. Standards like OpenGL ES 2.0 and ES 3.0 truncate the list of API supported calls even further, giving less room for proprietary problems.

                              Admittedly Nvidia has also been quicker to adopt new protocols or functions compared to Intel or AMD. VDPAU is a very good example of this. Nvidia had their API out and ready for usage... and leveraged marketshare like a club. So, instead of having a universal standard for Video Acceleration API's... we have a proprietary standard being resold as an open-standard.

                              Admittedly AMD and Intel have been slow to react to other advances in the open-source market. Case in point would be Kwin+OpenGL on AMD hardware: http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...gacy-hardware/

                              * * *

                              However, these last two situations are slowly being addressed. AMD and Intel have an open-source strategy and are carrying their strategies out by fixing problems, getting appropriate specifications released under Open-Licenses, and generally being good Open-Source citizens.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
                                Har Har.

                                Now you've proven 100% that you're not here to have an actual conversation, but only to troll. What's the matter? Are you afraid that if you provide the link, the video will decode perfectly on my machine?

                                Comment

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