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AMD Linux Catalyst: Hardware Owners Screwed?

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  • #31
    Isn't this basically saying they are moving to an NVidia-like release process?

    I don't see how that's particularly bad, in fact a lot of people have been requesting exactly that.

    The only bad news here was that the 12.4 drivers were the last with support for r600/r700 hardware, which is indeed bad news.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
      Isn't end target for every hardware vendor who support Linux - provide FOSS drivers instead of proprietary? Isn't AMD do that right now?
      Well, I think and agree that using FOSS ATI drivers is the way to go on GNU/Linux, but I'd use FOSS drivers more often if:

      - I had PROPER H.264 VA-API/VDPAU support. It's unacceptable that such a basic 2D feature is still unsupported by FOSS ATI drivers. (btw, VDPAU on MPEG2 videos already works well...)

      - OpenGL games were not LIMITED BY THE CPU / MESA DRIVER, but rather BY THE GPU (on slow systems, you'll suffer performance penalties even if you use a High-End card).

      - BETTER POWER MANAGEMENT (at least on laptop graphics cards). The only option we currently have if we buy a laptop with AMD/ATI graphics card is using it with Catalyst. Otherwise, you can expect to send you computer to the manufacturer before the guarantee expires (due to heating issues)...

      With these news, I'm feeling a little more happier that I switched to Intel+nVidia (Bumblebee)... Maybe my next desktop system will also suffer a "change"...

      Cheers

      p.s.: I hope that Catalyst 12.5 (if it gets released) supports r600/r700-generation cards...

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
        Isn't end target for every hardware vendor who support Linux - provide FOSS drivers instead of proprietary? Isn't AMD do that right now?
        I bought my 4850 around mid 2008 or so. While we saw three succeeding generations by now, this is still powerful hardware.
        Let's take Valve/Source games as an example. Under windows I can run all Valve games with high detail at 1920x1200.
        Will I be able to do that on Linux with the open drivers? Who knows. But I wouldn't bet on it.
        (Indeed, it's not even clear when we will see first Source games on Linux.)

        According to Michael

        • Intels OTC ramps up effort to bring their Linux driver up to speed (and features).
          http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...705#post260705
          As they don't have a proprietary driver you won't have any restrictions on your Linux environment (kernel, xserver).
        • NVidia has a maintained legacy branch that gives you high performance and support for current kernels and xservers.

        So in both cases, it stands to reason, that you will be able to run those games on capable hardware AND recent xservers.

        Where am I left with my 4850 HD if it's not working fine with the open drivers?
        Even if one does not upgrade to new kernels (while there may be community patches) and recent xserver versions,
        who knows if Catalyst 12.4 plays well with upcoming games/engines? Maybe more or less trivial bug fixes won't simply applied
        because the hardware support has phased out.
        Last edited by entropy; 05-31-2012, 05:55 PM.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
          http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles...st126beta.aspx
          By the way, isn't that mean beta builds with new kernel and xserver support will be available earlier for testing?
          Isn't that people asking for? Then why same people complain right now?
          Thanks a lot, eventually something useful. So far the best driver for my HD7750 that I bought 2 months ago. There is "Testing use only" watermark in the corner but no screen corruptions as before.

          Comment


          • #35
            Your 4850 works with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, which is supported until April 2017. So you can continue to run games&stuff for another couple of years.

            That AMD's proprietary drivers will apparently never provide r600/r700 support for X.org server 1.12 is sad. Even more so considering the lack of an Evergreen+ alternative for AM3+ IGPs. (Yes, that 780G from four years ago is still on sale with only slight improvements.)

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            • #36
              Originally posted by entropy View Post
              Where will such an announcement be placed?

              Can it get more actual than a news on Phoronix?
              hey i was faster than michael on Phoronix????: http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...-every-3-month

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by kUrb1a View Post
                Great,just great .I was hopping to get at least another AMD hd4870 card for crossfire but now i dont even care.I always tried to distanced myself from these rage trains but this is just too much! AMD you fcked up!
                in my point of view its not sure! right now i use the radeon driver for "gaming" with my hd4770
                if amd spend the money on the radeon driver to improve this one as a latency driver then I'm happy.
                because the radeon driver is much better as a latency driver than the "catalyst" means "bug-free" and long-time support by red-hat
                they only need some work done for example the power managment to get the maximum clock speed on a hd6550D APU

                and maybe they put out some video acceleration specs as a farewell? gift?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by chithanh View Post
                  Your 4850 works with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, which is supported until April 2017. So you can continue to run games&stuff for another couple of years.

                  That AMD's proprietary drivers will apparently never provide r600/r700 support for X.org server 1.12 is sad. Even more so considering the lack of an Evergreen+ alternative for AM3+ IGPs. (Yes, that 780G from four years ago is still on sale with only slight improvements.)
                  I don't use Ubuntu and I don't think that will change anytime soon.
                  Also, just because C12.4 supports Ubuntu 12.04 until 2017 does not mean that there is extended support for the card (concerning the blob).
                  Will there be any Catalyst fixes (r600/r700) for Ubuntu 12.04? AFAIK - No.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Good thing i got an nvidia GTS450

                    I got an nvidia GTS450 with this nice chip after AMD left me alone in the dark:



                    This baby allows me to do what it is intended to do on linux platform. I can use it to create qt4 applications, program WebGL with it and play games, watch HD videos etc. on linux. I got it after retarded AMD dropped support for my R580 (X1950XT) which i owned about just 2 years. At that time i warned people in this forum that it would happen again and OSS drivers while being a nice project need an age to reach high performance levels, feature richness and stability. Many people didn't believe this could happen and they were happy with their AMD evangelism. Time passed and time proved me right.


                    Nvidia: Good for high performance OpenGL and video playback, decent desktop experience.

                    Intel: Best new kernel and Xorg server support, very good 2D desktop experience with accelerated video playback, decent OpenGL

                    AMD: pure crap

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      linux users count

                      Could somebody from AMD tell us if they actually count the # of linux driver downloads ?

                      How do the numbers compare to windows ?
                      Are decisions made and resources allocated based on these ratios ?


                      thank you for any response

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by evolution View Post
                        - BETTER POWER MANAGEMENT (at least on laptop graphics cards). The only option we currently have if we buy a laptop with AMD/ATI graphics card is using it with Catalyst. Otherwise, you can expect to send you computer to the manufacturer before the guarantee expires (due to heating issues)...
                        How you may get heating issues with low or middle power profile?

                        Originally posted by entropy View Post
                        Where am I left with my 4850 HD if it's not working fine with the open drivers?
                        Where Intel owners left if Intel HD not working fine with open drivers? Where nVidia legacy owners left with bugs of legacy drivers?

                        Originally posted by entropy View Post
                        who knows if Catalyst 12.4 plays well with upcoming games/engines? Maybe more or less trivial bug fixes won't simply applied because the hardware support has phased out.
                        Same question to you but about nVidia legacy hardware with nVidia legacy drivers.
                        Last edited by RussianNeuroMancer; 05-31-2012, 06:24 PM.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by MonkeyPaw View Post
                          As a former PC gamer turned Ubuntu user, I put my Llano hardware on craigslist and went with a Core i3 build, as Intel offered a superior experience all around. It truly is an odd day when Intel's graphics support exceeds that of a company that produces high-end graphics hardware.
                          Nothing odd about that. AMD struggles to be competitive at all with Nvidia in the discrete graphics space (they're not doing so hot now that Kepler is again the performance king, but HD5000 was a good generation) and they are absolutely obliterated on the desktop CPU front. They have to be losing lots of money, which might be why they are cheapening their graphics driver support.

                          Seriously though; Intel has been into the FOSS movement as a commercial supporter thereof for a decade or more. ATI tepidly stepped in with a small team of less than 10 people about 5 years ago. Intel supports ALL of their hardware on Linux with very few exceptions (e.g. when they license someone else's IP and that someone won't let them share any details in open code, like PowerlessVR Screwageneration Technologies). They invest heavily in development for the Linux kernel and userspace tools like powertop.

                          If you ever had any doubt about the true king of FOSS support, erase that doubt now. Intel is the hardware support king of FOSS.

                          I dual boot. I keep my monitors plugged into the Z77 motherboard. My Ivy Bridge 3770K plus the LucidLogix Virtu MVP chip lets me use my Radeon HD7970 for performance gaming without moving my monitor cables, on Windows. On Linux I just reboot and it uses the Ivy Bridge graphics. Performance is truly stellar (for Linux). Blows away anything anyone else has ever done with Mesa, in the entire history of Mesa. Absolutely obliterates it. r600g and nouveau don't even come remotely close.
                          Last edited by allquixotic; 05-31-2012, 06:20 PM.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by entropy View Post
                            Where am I left with my 4850 HD if it's not working fine with the open drivers?
                            what do you mean? i use my hd4770 with the radeon driver no problem here.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Seriously, people should stop this 'AMD sucks now, nVidia for me!' stupidity.

                              AMD is pretty right to drop old crap support. Did they drop support to soon? Yes a little. Should they have dropped 4000 support, probably really not, since a lot of IGP's use those and it's not THAT old. There's probably a more technical reason for dropping r700 support.

                              That said, AMD is still a great supporter of OSS, even with their tight resources. nVidia does not care about open source too much and intel, well intel supports their hardware well, mostly, on some fronts, not so well on others (coreboot for example).

                              As for bashing the OSS drivers, my 2004 laptop, single core cpu with a r300 based card runs great. Year and a half ago it even ran blizzard based opengl games acceptably. BETTER! Then winXP could.

                              So keep your shorts on, see what developments bring and don't use extremly old crappy hardware

                              My fanless 6670 purrs happily in this box and my next card, will still be an AMD card.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
                                Where Intel owners left if Intel HD not working fine with open drivers? Where nVidia legacy owners left bugs of legacy drivers?

                                Same question to you but about nVidia legacy hardware with nVidia legacy drivers.
                                Intel: You can still file bug reports, can't you? I don't know the specific issues of Intel HD GPUs.
                                You're implying something won't get supported/fixed while there are lots of bug reports, right?

                                NVidia: My last NVidia card has been a 6600GT I bought in ~2004. I just checked the driver support.
                                It's the oldest chipset supported by the non-legacy drivers. That's quite ok!
                                Also this should be about the chipset generation capable of running Source games (albeit not max details, ofc).
                                Additionally, it seems like they even fix major bugs for the legacy drivers.
                                http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-d...31-driver.html (Aug. 2011)

                                Now don't get me wrong. I'm a strong proponent of AMD open specs strategy.
                                I'm fine with the 60-70% performance goal. *I* can even deal being without UVD support and the PM deficiencies.
                                The plain desktop experience (no 3D compositor) is great.
                                But it's obvious that the drivers are simply not there yet wrt 3D and progress is slower than anticipated.
                                With the (hopefully) materialising native Source games from VALVE, I'm not sure they will be there in time.
                                That's why I think dropping support for still powerful r600/r700 hardware from the binary driver (as a fallback)
                                is simply not a good business decision.

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