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AMD Admits It Has Linux Problems

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  • #46
    In particular, AMD concedes it has the most problems with OpenCL support on Linux. They attribute their Linux problems to the fact that there's many Linux distributions out there rather than just a single platform like Microsoft Windows.
    Stop kidding. You just support few distributions which aren't so different. If you were focus just on Ubuntu I bet it will be the same, because of stupid policy and lack of manpower.

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    • #47
      I just don't understand why they keep saying 'windows easy to support, linux hard'. And ontop of that mac osx is 'just as easy as windows' well it isn't often said, but ment.

      This, imo is bullcrap. First off, they can make linux support almost as easy. Pick a main stream desktop 'joe user' distro and work for that, keeping in mind (and getting dev input) to not do really weird distro specific shit. I think they mostly do that already, by using Ubuntu (since those get pre-release drivers). It should foremost work there. That's their base. True, the ideal base would be some LSB/linux from scratch something ueber basic. Hell Gentoo would be a really nice base, but best pick something that's extremly mainstream.

      Linux being linux, should let distro maintainers sort the rest. Yes a burden, but not impossible.


      So why would windows or mac osx be any easier to support to begin with? Granted, api's change much less often and abi's are more stable. But you cannot fool me, and tell me that Mac OSX 10.5.* 10.6.* 10.7.* 10.8.* all can use the exact same files and it miraculously just works. And windows? Come on, it's even worse. Let's forget 9x and 2k (even though 2k should be valid still as it's not that much different from XP). WinXP, WinXP SP1, WinXP SP2, WinXP SP3, WinXP SP3..., Win vista SP..., and The same continues for 7 and later 8. Also here, I'm sure you can't just pop 1 driver into all those architectures and it 'just works'. Probably easier, probably less of an issue, especially when you say 'only works on 7' but even so it's still work and effort be put in.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by oliver View Post
        And ontop of that mac osx is 'just as easy as windows' well it isn't often said, but ment.
        Serious question: Who is developing the GPU drivers for Mac OS?

        Isn't it Apple themselves?

        http://www.macdirectory.com/componen...job_id,200635/

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
          Getting rid of the FGLRX would double the open-source team and this is the only point what matters!
          How would it double the open source team? I'm quite sure that the FGLRX people are restricted due to proprietary bits, etc.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by entropy View Post
            Serious question: Who is developing the GPU drivers for Mac OS?

            Isn't it Apple themselves?

            http://www.macdirectory.com/componen...job_id,200635/
            I seriously doubt they do all the development.

            The Graphics team is responsible for shaping the Mac OS device drivers, and working with developers, internal partners, and vendors to define the GPU solutions
            .

            I belive that the vendors to work with, are nvidia, intel and amd. Do you really think they can do all that development work to support all these options? Also, amd has released mac hardware in the past, that didn't come with a mac per default, 'aftermarket' card. No, I don't think so.

            Apple surely works extremely close with amd/nvidia/intel on their graphics bits but I do not believe they do all their driver development in-house based on 'specs' only.

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            • #51
              " They attribute their Linux problems to the fact that there's many Linux distributions out there rather than just a single platform like Microsoft Windows. "
              whaaat? repeated lie wince/winxp/win7/winserver x86/AMD64/EMT64/ARM (don't push on "official 'windows' supported m$ policy" there is mobile/server windows too)

              google typed "opencl linux example" - guess what - "NVIDIA OpenCL SDK Code Samples" examples, code snippets all nice , and deep sublink to http://developer.amd.com/zones/OpenC...s/default.aspx a lot of marketing pages...
              installed xorg on some pc yesterday with nvidia driver.. opnecl driver note ..

              They are late and not too active shame i really loved some amd code releases (like SSEX quickmath library)

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              • #52
                Originally posted by oliver View Post
                I seriously doubt they do all the development.

                I belive that the vendors to work with, are nvidia, intel and amd. Do you really think they can do all that development work to support all these options? Also, amd has released mac hardware in the past, that didn't come with a mac per default, 'aftermarket' card. No, I don't think so.

                Apple surely works extremely close with amd/nvidia/intel on their graphics bits but I do not believe they do all their driver development in-house based on 'specs' only.
                My question has not been a rhetorical one.
                I simply don't know it.

                Let's assume they make use of the available OpenGL cores (from the windows driver implementations for instance)
                and just wrap around platform specific code - similar to what NVidia and AMD does for their Linux blobs.
                Then why is it that they still stick with OpenGL 3.2 in Lion?
                Yes, there might be reasons for that - other than writing large parts of it on their own - but it's strange, isn't it?

                Edit: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item&px=OTI0OA ("Mac Graphics Drivers Are Still Troubled", March 25, 2011)

                Apple largely develops their own GPU drivers for Mac OS X in-house and last year they overhauled their OS X OpenGL stack for NVIDIA and AMD graphics processors. This was done as Valve Software was porting their Source Engine to Mac OS X and their current drivers on Mac OS X 10.6 at the time simply didn't cut it. The Snow Leopard Graphics Update improved the OpenGL performance, fixed various corruption issues, improved the GL Shading Language support, and fixed up or added support for various other OpenGL extensions. Like the Mesa / Gallium3D drivers, Mac OS X too is largely living in a OpenGL 2.1 world at this time.
                Last edited by entropy; 05-29-2012, 06:31 PM.

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                • #53
                  it must have been eight or more years ago when a colleague said to me "if you buy anything other than an nvidia card, you've bought the wrong one".

                  This was when I worked at a company where were could use our desktop computers for lan gaming at lunchtime and after work, and the very simple ATI graphics card in the machine which was fine for text editing was simply useless for things like quake and unreal. I took his advice and bought an Elsa Geforce200MX, and it worked without hassles, unlike any previous time I'd use ATI.

                  I've never bought an ATI/AMD card since. When I bought this laptop, a key requirement was to have nvidia graphics and avoid ati. Sure, when running linux you have to taint your system with a binary blob, but it does work.

                  Sorry, AMD/ATI, but now your CPUs can't compete against Intel's, and there's no way I'd buy your CPU/GPU package, you've become a footnote in my technical history book.

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                  • #54
                    Tearing?

                    AMD Catalyst Control Center // Display Options // Tear Free // Enable Tear Free Desktop to reduce tearing.

                    Gee wiz Batman, that options been there for years.


                    Originally posted by Newfie View Post
                    Oh, I completely understand that and I am very happy with the overall progress with the open source drivers. The problem for me is not the open source stuff, but rather the poor quality of FGLRX in terms of tearing, slow scrolling, input delays , etc. I already recommend AMD cards to non-gamer Linux users.

                    Apart from 3d performance the open source driver does almost everything I'd ever need it for. It's just not good enough for my needs in that area. Apparently power management is rather lacking on the high-end, too, but I cannot comment on that as I just have a low end Caicos.

                    I've only been using an AMD card on my main machine for about a year, and it has not been a positive experience. It's just the horrible desktop performance. 3D works great, but the tearing and 2d lag drives me insane. The open source driver is *almost* usable for me, but still not quite there yet.

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                    • #55
                      And in the real world...

                      People go for the deal. I can pickup an AMD laptop/graphics combo for less than 300 bones.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by entropy View Post
                        My question has not been a rhetorical one.
                        I simply don't know it.

                        Let's assume they make use of the available OpenGL cores (from the windows driver implementations for instance)
                        and just wrap around platform specific code - similar to what NVidia and AMD does for their Linux blobs.
                        Then why is it that they still stick with OpenGL 3.2 in Lion?
                        Yes, there might be reasons for that - other than writing large parts of it on their own - but it's strange, isn't it?

                        Edit: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...item&px=OTI0OA ("Mac Graphics Drivers Are Still Troubled", March 25, 2011)
                        The driver situation on Macs is very similar to Windows.

                        On Windows, Microsoft implements Direct3D, and the vendor drivers are expected to hook into it.

                        The same is true for Apple's implementation of OpenGL on Macs.

                        They implement a lot of the high-level code but leave a lot of it still to AMD and NVidia. Their OpenGL implementations on Windows and Linux have to do more to re-implement the parts that Apple does.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by squirrl View Post
                          AMD Catalyst Control Center // Display Options // Tear Free // Enable Tear Free Desktop to reduce tearing.

                          Gee wiz Batman, that options been there for years.
                          That option would be quite nice if it didn't significantly reduce overall performance.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Newfie View Post
                            That option would be quite nice if it didn't significantly reduce overall performance.
                            What kind of performance problems do you experience?

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                            • #59
                              AMD has been mailing it in for years now and their excuses are getting pretty lame at this point.

                              NVIDIA supports FreeBSD, Linux, OS X, Solaris, Windows and embedded platforms like Android. AMD is basically Windows or GTFO.

                              NVIDIA is aggressively pursuing future markets and supporting a broad variety of platforms, rather than resting on the laurels of early 2000's fanboyism. AMD still doesn't see any utility in the smartphone / tablet market.

                              Want to build a low-end HTPC with AMD? Get ready to fork over $100 for a Windows license. Meanwhile NVIDIA gives us VDPAU on a $10 card.

                              Want to do GPGPU computing? Good luck on a UNIX-like system. But at least AMD software engineers are giving us OpenCL-enabled WinZip and HandBrake (on Windows). There goes a top priority.

                              Seriously, I've got nothing positive to say about this company any more. My early-2000s love affair is totally dead at this point.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by mattst88 View Post
                                Another aspect is when said non-developers compare vendors on things such as time between hardware release and usable drivers.
                                That is a completely valid comparison, as such drivers should always be ready at launch time irrespective of the company.

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