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  • Originally posted by RealNC View Post
    No, not by that much. The 560 is usually about 60-70% faster than a 4870 and the 560 Ti is about 70-80% faster. It's very, very rare to see a 2x performance difference.

    Here are benches of the 560 Ti vs the 4870. Note that they don't have benches of the plain 560 (non-Ti):

    http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/304?vs=330
    This site is better. Ive picked non-Ti. 60-100% average.

    4870 cannot downclock properly as well (all pre R700).

    I wonder if we ever will get GPU to work as pluggable CPU cores - plug more and get equivalent boost. On best - without drivers. Would require smp-friendly software or hardware tricks.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by GrrlTlak View Post
      Hi,

      i can understand your frustration with the state of AMD /ATI driver support in Linux. I myself finally made the switch to Windows 7 after having been "forced to live" with this driver disaster. The open radeon driver does not function due to energy issues and since my notebook really IS a tool and not the center of my being i decided to ditch Linux since there is no fully functional desktop environment when you are a customer of ATI or AMD. The situation and this company really are sucking. The only Linux i have left now resides in my Motorola Defy+ ...

      Hope you'll be glad with your all-new graphic chip ;-)
      This tip is very free:


      1. Take a Hammer
      2. Destroy useless AMD hardware

      or
      1. Take a paper box
      2. Send useless AMD hardware to #radeon

      3. Buy chip that is supported (intel or nvidia).


      NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO DO STUPID THINGS.

      Also, did you notice that MS has used EXACTLY same tactics against Java? And against Firefox? And with OpenGL/Direct3d(there IS NO POINT IN directx - AT ALL).

      AMD has regular sex with microsoft (as in "owned"), end of the story.
      Last edited by crazycheese; 03-08-2012, 08:57 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by RealNC View Post
        No, not by that much. The 560 is usually about 60-70% faster than a 4870 and the 560 Ti is about 70-80% faster. It's very, very rare to see a 2x performance difference.

        Here are benches of the 560 Ti vs the 4870. Note that they don't have benches of the plain 560 (non-Ti):

        http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/304?vs=330
        That's comforting, I was using some wrong metrics then (mix of Wikipedia & other site)...

        Comment


        • Originally posted by RealNC View Post
          It's usable here and works perfectly.
          But tearing is still there. With both of nVidia proprietary driver and nouveau. And there is no any way to fix it with nVidia hardware. You maybe doesn't see it, that make you happy man, but that not make problem doesn't exist.
          Originally posted by RealNC View Post
          Do I care if there is or isn't?
          Developers are not telepathic, sorry. How they may fix this bug if they even doesn't know about it?
          Originally posted by RealNC View Post
          Yes.
          So you doesn't see it, as expected.
          Originally posted by RealNC View Post
          I don't play multiplayer games. Except chess.
          And what you will gonna do with PhysX when you clear Metro 2033, Alice: Madness Returns and Batman: Arkham City?

          Comment


          • Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
            But tearing is still there. With both of nVidia proprietary driver and nouveau. And there is no any way to fix it with nVidia hardware.
            Nope. To get VSync, you enable it in KDE's system settings, *NOT* in the driver. There's a checkbox there: System Settings->Desktop Effects->"Advanced" tab->"Use VSync" checkbox. If you enable that, say goodbye to tearing.


            Developers are not telepathic, sorry. How they may fix this bug if they even doesn't know about it?
            How should I know who's bug it is? I thought it was a KWin problem, because the Catalyst driver had the same issue.

            So you doesn't see it, as expected.
            I'm very sensitive to tearing. Very sensitive. I can spot it immediately. If I tell you that there's no tearing and that VSync works, you can count on that.

            And what you will gonna do with PhysX when you clear Metro 2033, Alice: Madness Returns and Batman: Arkham City?
            What, will it kill my cat? What do you mean "what you will gonna do". Do I need to do something?

            Comment


            • I Hear Ya Buddy!

              I've been using ATI hardware since forever, been pretty pleased with it on the windows gaming side.. but i love to test linux distro's and the gfx is a nightmare every time.. My last attempts has been with my 5850, not sure if that's a notoriously bad example, but i've never had much luck with it.. actually the default (vesa?) driver has been fine, but any attempts at acceleration leaves the UI in shambles..

              Can't wait to see what those new gf104's can do ..

              Comment


              • Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                Nope. To get VSync, you enable it in KDE's system settings, *NOT* in the driver. There's a checkbox there: System Settings->Desktop Effects->"Advanced" tab->"Use VSync" checkbox. If you enable that, say goodbye to tearing.
                You really think I not try this?
                And this is not problem of some "unlucky" GPU model - I try five nVidia GPU's (different generations sure).

                Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                How should I know who's bug it is? I thought it was a KWin problem, because the Catalyst driver had the same issue.
                And... how KWin developer may know about that if you didn't tell? (And help you sort issue if it doesn't KWin issue.)

                Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                If I tell you that there's no tearing and that VSync works, you can count on that.
                KWin doesn't support nVidia sync implementation. nVidia driver can't do proper vsync for compositor without support on compositor side. I try to at least five nVidia GPU's (maybe more) with driver from 96 to 295. I sure try all advices for Compiz and KWin. If you doesn't see tearing that may mean you miss something or your case is very, very rare.

                Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                What, will it kill my cat? What do you mean "what you will gonna do". Do I need to do something?
                No, I just ask why you so happy about PhysX before, and I still not understand why you so happy about that.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by RussianNeuroMancer View Post
                  You really think I not try this?
                  And this is not problem of some "unlucky" GPU model - I try five nVidia GPU's (different generations sure).
                  Well, dunno. As I said, it worked right from the start for me. I didn't have to do anything special. Note that I'm talking about the nvidia binary driver. I've no idea about Nouveau.

                  And... how KWin developer may know about that if you didn't tell? (And help you sort issue if it doesn't KWin issue.)
                  I reported it:

                  http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...#comment-43276

                  He didn't know what I'm talking about. He was probably using NVidia :-)

                  KWin doesn't support nVidia sync implementation. nVidia driver can't do proper vsync for compositor without support on compositor side. I try to at least five nVidia GPU's (maybe more) with driver from 96 to 295. I sure try all advices for Compiz and KWin. If you doesn't see tearing that may mean you miss something or your case is very, very rare.
                  You probably enabled "Sync to VBlank" in nvidia-settings. Don't do that. Only enable it in KDE System Settings. I'm using KDE 4.8, btw. When I disable VSync in KDE, I get tearing. When I enable it again, everything is smooth again. It works.

                  No, I just ask why you so happy about PhysX before, and I still not understand why you so happy about that.
                  Because I can now re-play some of my favorite games with PhysX. I replayed Mirror's Edge and Mafia 2, and the effects were pretty nice. I didn't say it's the most important thing ever. It's just... nice.

                  I'm gonna also try the CUDA water in Just Cause 2. It looks quite nice:

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE_lnS7TfDI

                  Comment


                  • RealNC: you are still lucky. Proprietary ATI drivers under linux on my dev-computer causes the kernel to crash without any error message, since 4+ years ago. So i have to use older kernel, or nVidia :P

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                      I reported it:
                      http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...#comment-43276
                      He didn't know what I'm talking about. He was probably using NVidia :-)
                      AFAIK he using R300g, fglrx (some R600 GPU) and nouveau (some NV50 GPU).

                      Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                      You probably enabled "Sync to VBlank" in nvidia-settings. Don't do that. Only enable it in KDE System Settings. I'm using KDE 4.8, btw. When I disable VSync in KDE, I get tearing. When I enable it again, everything is smooth again. It works.
                      I have two years to try everything before I switch to AMD. Believe me, I really try everything (that too). It's can not work right with nVidia driver in applications that doesn't support GL_EXT_x11_sync_object (KWin & Compiz) by disign of nVidia proprietary driver. Just admit it - you probably not so sensitive to tearing as you think (this itself is not something bad, but good for you).

                      Comment


                      • Maybe you use 2 displays and RealNC only 1?

                        Comment


                        • I have both of one screen and dual screen setup's. With AMD and two display setup there is tearing on second display too, but not on first.
                          Last edited by RussianNeuroMancer; 03-09-2012, 06:15 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by RealNC View Post
                            No, not by that much. The 560 is usually about 60-70% faster than a 4870 and the 560 Ti is about 70-80% faster. It's very, very rare to see a 2x performance difference.

                            Here are benches of the 560 Ti vs the 4870. Note that they don't have benches of the plain 560 (non-Ti):

                            http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/304?vs=330
                            Those are Windows benchmarks. Under Linux + wine, you'd be hard pressed to get a 6970 to give you the same frame rates as an 8800GT in some directx-only titles. So yes, a 560Ti can be 2x, 4x and even 8x faster than a 4870 in some Windows games under wine.

                            Some of that is wine optimizations for NV hardware, but much of that is fglrx blowing goats.

                            Recent fglrx versions have closed the gap quite a bit. Before 11.11 my 5830s were about 1/8 to 1/4 the frame rates of my 8800GT in e.g. Champions Online (about 2-10 fps with 5830s, around 18-60 with the 8800gt). As of 11.11 I get about half the performance of an 8800GT with my 5830. On Windows the 5830 is about double the frame rates of a 8800GT in pretty much everything.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by v8envy View Post
                              Those are Windows benchmarks. Under Linux + wine, you'd be hard pressed to get a 6970 to give you the same frame rates as an 8800GT in some directx-only titles. So yes, a 560Ti can be 2x, 4x and even 8x faster than a 4870 in some Windows games under wine.

                              Some of that is wine optimizations for NV hardware, but much of that is fglrx blowing goats.

                              Recent fglrx versions have closed the gap quite a bit. Before 11.11 my 5830s were about 1/8 to 1/4 the frame rates of my 8800GT in e.g. Champions Online (about 2-10 fps with 5830s, around 18-60 with the 8800gt). As of 11.11 I get about half the performance of an 8800GT with my 5830. On Windows the 5830 is about double the frame rates of a 8800GT in pretty much everything.
                              This problem is because of the 5D/4D VLIW architecture because you really need strong optimizations in the AMD driver to get the full speed and they just don't do it for Linux and wine.

                              so yes you are right for all hd2000-hd6000 cards.

                              but the hd7970 for example isn't VLIW anymore.

                              this means the hd7000 cards should bring a much better result for linux and wine.

                              maybe you should check an hd7000 card

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                                This problem is because of the 5D/4D VLIW architecture because you really need strong optimizations in the AMD driver to get the full speed and they just don't do it for Linux and wine.

                                so yes you are right for all hd2000-hd6000 cards.

                                but the hd7970 for example isn't VLIW anymore.

                                this means the hd7000 cards should bring a much better result for linux and wine.

                                maybe you should check an hd7000 card
                                If this is correct then VLIW is a tomb.

                                VLIW is as good as optimized. This means anyone who is doing the driver needs specific tools. If that tools are unavailable, you can do nothing regardless of amount of people busy around it.

                                This means if AMD does not release VLIW driver tools, they are the only one who can do driver.

                                And if they rotate chicken-egg problem, to no sales-no driver (instead of driver->sales), and resist to do driver, VLIW architecture becomes real tomb. Because the card will only work where they (AMD) see it fit.

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