Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Goodbye ATI

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
    Linux fanboys have nothing to do with it. You sure mean opensource purists.
    While opensource IS good, I personally have no problem with closed source as long as it fills ALL of above:
    [x] supported (incl. bugs and security)
    [x] known not to have malware or spyware
    [x] does not impose or represent itself as a standard protocol
    [x] has free alternative (no matter with what feature difference)

    For example, if I use inkscape and other guy coreldraw, and if we can both exchange SVGs - I have no problem with coreldraw.
    the world goes the other way around... its closed source because they don't want fix security holes because they think closed source is the biggest weapon against the knowledge about security holes in the software.

    also there is no closed source software without spy-ware!

    and closed source comes always with closed protocols.

    and closed source always tent to destroy free alternatives.

    in the end you on the side of open-source or you are lost.

    Comment


    • #62
      I only used skype as example of apps that only work with xv. Maybe you find better examples. But to say fglrx works with Debian testing is just wrong as using xv will crash the xserver. Nobody can accept this kind of support.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
        the world goes the other way around... its closed source because they don't want fix security holes because they think closed source is the biggest weapon against the knowledge about security holes in the software.

        also there is no closed source software without spy-ware!

        and closed source comes always with closed protocols.

        and closed source always tent to destroy free alternatives.

        in the end you on the side of open-source or you are lost.
        Two examples where it does not apply: ntfs driver for mac (from tuxera) and infamous urban terror game. Supported, no holes, no spyware, no closed protocols, no intention to destroy free alternatives.

        But there IS software which falls upon your criteria - if opensource amd driver would be supported and work for new and old cards like you would expect from a driver to do, many would not use nvidia.

        Is there a possibility within xorg project to create fund generation for radeon driver? I see it is labeled as unwanted and undesired by AMD, but whats alternative? Start our own company ?

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Kano View Post
          I only used skype as example of apps that only work with xv. Maybe you find better examples. But to say fglrx works with Debian testing is just wrong as using xv will crash the xserver. Nobody can accept this kind of support.
          When I used fglrx in 2008, it crashed the kernel when switching text consoles! Compared to that - its a progress!

          Comment


          • #65
            Welcome to the club!

            A few *many* years back I did my best to use an ATi card (actually multiple). While they worked OK, they kept crashing at strange times. After hours and hours of tinkering and xorg.conf modifications a light turned on. I said fuck it, drove to Microcenter, bought an Nvidia card and was up and running in minutes. I was back in Nvidia land. :P

            While its fun to argue the virtues of supporting OS work, testing and reporting bugs, at some point in some peoples lives all that has to take a back seat to getting actual work done. I'm not in school anymore and my time is worth some amount of $$/hour. If I want to do good in a larger community I'll not submit bug reports and suffer crap drivers, I'll donate my time and money to charities that solve other more pressing problems.

            While I do applaud AMD for releasing docs and I'm am awe of the R600/Nouveau OS driver work and the foresight of the Gallium framework, I can care only so much. I hope they both eventually support a large set of OpenGL specifications and OpenCL/CUDA, but I'll not be waiting.

            Until then I'll be running Linux/Nvidia/CUDA on my remote workstation for number crunching, OSX/Intel on my laptop for its GUI, stability and ability to sleep properly (and IOS dev), and Windows 7 in VMWare to make $$ with.

            Comment


            • #66
              Congrats on your nvidia purchase. I'm sure you'll be pretty happy... and if you intend to watch video, yes, VDPAU is awesome and even puts DXVA to shame IMO.

              The binary driver isn't free from bugs and annoying gotchas... and they have scaled some functionality out recently, and excluded some other things (e.g., overclocking in Fermi)... but for the most part it's a win.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                Two examples where it does not apply: ntfs driver for mac (from tuxera) and infamous urban terror game. Supported, no holes, no spyware, no closed protocols, no intention to destroy free alternatives.
                your writing here is just a joke! because: NTFS IS A CLOSED PROTOCOL!

                really you FAIL here! and yes NTFS is only to destroy free alternatives.

                Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                if opensource amd driver would be supported and work for new and old cards like you would expect from a driver to do, many would not use nvidia.
                i use it in this way??? and no i give a shit about video acceleration because: i buy a faster cpu if my system is to slow for videos. power managment? i give a shit about power managment i buy passiv cooled cards and i don'T use notebooks.

                in fact you can life with the radeon driver but not with the catalyst.


                Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                Is there a possibility within xorg project to create fund generation for radeon driver?
                I already do this on a private basis i spend money to oibaf,michael,marek there is no need for any official project. Just open your pocket and send the money to your favor dev.


                Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                I see it is labeled as unwanted and undesired by AMD, but whats alternative? Start our own company ?
                you can send money on a private basis.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                  your writing here is just a joke! because: NTFS IS A CLOSED PROTOCOL!
                  And tuxera is going to destroy ... closed protocol? There is danger only if closed source implementation introduces OWN standard and becomes WIDESPREAD. Because no alternative can exist, if communication path is proprietary and there is no chance to ditch it out.

                  Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                  i use it in this way??? and no i give a shit about video acceleration because: i buy a faster cpu if my system is to slow for videos. power managment? i give a shit about power managment i buy passiv cooled cards and i don'T use notebooks.

                  in fact you can life with the radeon driver but not with the catalyst.
                  You can do that, or you can push manufacturer into producing something efficient instead.
                  You can buy 6970 to achieve speeds that of 6550, which means your software is bottlenecking like no tomorrow. Manufacturers are responsible for software - they are. First manufacturer who gets job done gets money. First who does that in opensource gets 9 out of 10 preference.

                  Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                  I already do this on a private basis i spend money to oibaf,michael,marek there is no need for any official project. Just open your pocket and send the money to your favor dev.
                  ...
                  you can send money on a private basis.
                  You surpise me sometimes. Are you going to say you want to finance whole radeon project from private pocket money? Or you apply as new xorg radeon financial manager - so for every AMD card I buy or recommend, I tell people to route 1/10 of cost to your bank so that you can distribute?
                  Because AMD 8itches the whole time - there is not enought manpower, yet the manpower is ONLY limited by financial situation. There ARE people who would pay for opendrivers, I KNOW it. As long as money does not disappear. It wonders me people donate 3k$ on BS distros like Sabayon just for 1/3 of them to sit on fglrx.

                  So where is official Xorg Radeon compaign, Q.? Or should we sit still wait for AMD "All-in-Wonder"?

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    I really don't get you guys sometimes.
                    RealNC: I can really feel with you. I used NVidia until last summer when I bought my new PC. I thought "This time I'm going to buy AMD. They support open source driver development".
                    Open source drivers my ***. When I pay a lot of money for a product, I want it to work.
                    The OSS drivers from AMD are mostly unusable (using Oibafs PPA for latest MESA). Until now I was not able to run Oil rush or any other Ungine-based software with the radeon driver (usually resulted in X crashes).
                    So I used fglrx, which is faster, but sucks in every other way (buggy installations, bugs everywhere, also X crashes. For a while I always had some artifacts on the screen after boot and always had to restart X twice until it worked, etc).
                    AMD has some nice ideas, but it's just so buggy (and OpenGL drivers are crap, compared to NVidia. AMD works much better with DirectX on Windows).
                    Now just as you, RealNC, I also ordered a new Nvidia card which will arrive in 1-2 days (GTX 570). Can't wait for it...

                    And about Intel: Compared to the radeon driver, this worked _really_ good. Even Oil Rush worked with it. Never had crashes, good Power Management, etc.
                    It works perfectly with my Sandy Bridge machine (Now using Intel until I get my new NVidia, because radeon/fglrx is just pain).
                    Also I'm very happy with my intel based netbook. It's not fast, but it works just perfectly and stable.

                    I can't wait for the day when Intel releases a fast GPU (maybe Ivy + 1?).
                    As soon as they do, I will probably never buy something else again...

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                      And tuxera is going to destroy ... closed protocol?
                      you don't get it... they support a closed protocol to destroy real free alternatives.

                      there is nothing good about NTFS. really nothing.

                      Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                      You surpise me sometimes. Are you going to say you want to finance whole radeon project from private pocket money?
                      tell me : why not?

                      you don't need a company like microsoft to manage your money.

                      just read the phoronix forum and if a dev do something useful just ask for the paypal email address oder bank account number to make a donation.

                      Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                      Or you apply as new xorg radeon financial manager - so for every AMD card I buy or recommend, I tell people to route 1/10 of cost to your bank so that you can distribute?
                      just ask yourself : " is this right or is this wrong" if you chose the answer : "This is right" then you can start sending money
                      Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                      There ARE people who would pay for opendrivers, I KNOW it.
                      i'm one of them

                      Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                      So where is official Xorg Radeon compaign, Q.?
                      sure (ironic) they need better propaganda maybe they should watch more Adolf Hitler speeches-(ironic off)

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                        you don't get it... they support a closed protocol to destroy real free alternatives.

                        there is nothing good about NTFS. really nothing.
                        How is NTFS is going to destroy free alternatives? Wtf? I have like 30 people who cannot access broken NAS (ext3 mdraid), so I used ntfs-3g to copy the data onto other USB drive that needs NTFS so they can copy all on their crappy windows. They know their windows is crappy, but I have to give them the data somehow. I donīt use NTFS for years already, but its question of interoperability.


                        Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                        tell me : why not?
                        you don't need a company like microsoft to manage your money.
                        just read the phoronix forum and if a dev do something useful just ask for the paypal email address oder bank account number to make a donation.
                        Because doing something professionally requires to have a company. This is why companies were required to register themself as companies in the first place. Or you go Freiberufer which would mean "Ich AG".

                        Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                        just ask yourself : " is this right or is this wrong" if you chose the answer : "This is right" then you can start sending money
                        ...
                        i'm one of them
                        ...
                        sure (ironic) they need better propaganda maybe they should watch more Adolf Hitler speeches-(ironic off)
                        Having you as financial manager for xorg radeon is RIGHT as long as you do your job.
                        But I have fears this ends in (ironic off) ironie.
                        Can you do a checklist what is to do to implement this model? I can assist you. My offer is:
                        [ ] Having really trusted and accepted person (among x-crew)
                        [ ] Put up roadmap and assign critical places - not for distant future, but for next 6 months.
                        [ ] Redo this roadmap hierarchically
                        [ ] Based upon current progress, calculate amount of work required to implement parts of that roadmap and from that ø amount of money for EACH segment
                        [ ] Set that into table, publish online on Xorg
                        [ ] Set minimal goal for each month
                        [ ] Attract crowd
                        [ ] Control incoming payment and distribution

                        Of course, this can be eV, in fact this SHOULD be eV, since the-commercial-AMD refuses to do their homework.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                          But there IS software which falls upon your criteria - if opensource amd driver would be supported and work for new and old cards like you would expect from a driver to do, many would not use nvidia.
                          Speak for yourself.

                          I wouldn't trade the Nvidia binary driver for nouveau, let alone switching to AMD hardware and using an open-source AMD driver.

                          Now i say this, fully knowing that the radeon driver is better than nouveau ~ but the point is - i wouldn't use either at this point, as they have no where near the performance or features of their binary counter-parts. And personally, i also think that Nvidia makes better hardware than AMD ~ which is another reason to NOT use AMD for graphics.

                          just my 2 cents

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                            How is NTFS is going to destroy free alternatives? Wtf? I have like 30 people who cannot access broken NAS (ext3 mdraid), so I used ntfs-3g to copy the data onto other USB drive that needs NTFS so they can copy all on their crappy windows. They know their windows is crappy, but I have to give them the data somehow. I donīt use NTFS for years already, but its question of interoperability.
                            you don't get it NTFS drain the money goes into modern file systems like BTRFS this means NTFS and the next microsoft file system gets all the money and no money goes into future opensource file systems.

                            this means: NTFS and any support for this filesystem realls hurts opensource solutions.

                            Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                            Because doing something professionally requires to have a company. This is why companies were required to register themself as companies in the first place. Or you go Freiberufer which would mean "Ich AG".
                            I'm a "Freiberufler" company and because of this i know the true you are just wrong.
                            Private humans can do a professional job.
                            "registered-Companys" are more about dealing with tax and getting the best cheating result on the TAX.
                            "registered-companys" has nothing to do with the REAL work.
                            Companies are only cheating on tax there is nothing more to say about companies.
                            be sure every company deal at maximum with the TAX.

                            Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                            Having you as financial manager for xorg radeon is RIGHT as long as you do your job.
                            i know how to manage money but if there is no money then there is no need for a manager.

                            Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                            Can you do a checklist what is to do to implement this model?
                            its more simple than the most people think: talking about money is talking about gambling you have to gambling with the GOV and TAX and with the people to and the devs.
                            one way is a "non-profit organization." then the payers get money back from the tax but most of the people don't donate money in free will the most people prefer to spend money on products.

                            this means to get the money in the right way linux people have to start building and selling hardware because the OEM'system'builders right now are the enemy of free software.

                            talking to OEMs and say: "Please please please sell linux hardware" doesn't work.

                            Pushing windows-OEMs out of business is the only way to go.

                            this means the linux people should spend money to open up a hardware company.


                            Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                            But I have fears this ends in (ironic off) ironie.
                            Can you do a checklist what is to do to implement this model? I can assist you. My offer is:
                            [ ] Having really trusted and accepted person (among x-crew)
                            [ ] Put up roadmap and assign critical places - not for distant future, but for next 6 months.
                            [ ] Redo this roadmap hierarchically
                            [ ] Based upon current progress, calculate amount of work required to implement parts of that roadmap and from that ø amount of money for EACH segment
                            [ ] Set that into table, publish online on Xorg
                            [ ] Set minimal goal for each month
                            [ ] Attract crowd
                            [ ] Control incoming payment and distribution

                            Of course, this can be eV, in fact this SHOULD be eV, since the-commercial-AMD refuses to do their homework.
                            no the market do not work like this an non commercial organization can never hurt a company like DELL or APPLE or Microsoft in the way they go out of business.

                            and in fact there is no non commercial hardware selling organization.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by ninez View Post
                              Si also think that Nvidia makes better hardware than AMD ~ which is another reason to NOT use AMD for graphics.
                              i think your knowelege is outdated in the past nvidia do have better hardware for AF filtering but this is just an old storry.

                              the hd7950 for example do have perfect AF filtering.

                              for the hd7900 series of hardware there isn't any logical argument against amd hardware.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                                i think your knowelege is outdated in the past nvidia do have better hardware for AF filtering but this is just an old storry.

                                the hd7950 for example do have perfect AF filtering.

                                for the hd7900 series of hardware there isn't any logical argument against amd hardware.
                                Yes there is.
                                http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldu...e-1399905.html
                                True, the HD 7970 is an absolute high-end GPU.
                                It even beats the GTX 580. Well, if there wasn't openGL.
                                DirectX: 7970 > GTX 580
                                OpenGL: GTX580 > 7970

                                I give you 2 seconds to think about what is more needed on Linux.
                                And the GTX 580 is still ~30-40€ cheaper than the 7970.
                                Choice is simple from a hardware perspective for a Linux user.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X