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  • #76
    Originally posted by ZedDB View Post
    I even went so far as to ask S2 to open up their render backend API so I could improve the render myself. As the current render backends are stored in .so/.dll files it seems like it would not be that hard to do.
    But of course they wont do that either.
    really i can not understand it why they won't do that ?

    its the easiest way to get an wood product and earn more customers.

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    • #77
      Why would they open up their IP to an unknown with no guarantee that improvements would be made and their IP wouldn't be used in another project? Legally they would be stupid to do that, especially while that code is still in use. If someone would want to continue down this path, best approach would be to offer up a NDA compiled by a lawyer, send it to them, get their lawyers to look at it, review the review (continue loop, spend money, until completion)...

      Legal issues aside, it would be nice of them to do that and have faith in ZedDB that he does indeed know what he's doing. Otherwise we'll have to wait until the K2 engine is no longer in use and hope they open it up like they did with the original Savage game.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by storma View Post
        Why would they open up their IP to an unknown with no guarantee that improvements would be made and their IP wouldn't be used in another project? Legally they would be stupid to do that, especially while that code is still in use. If someone would want to continue down this path, best approach would be to offer up a NDA compiled by a lawyer, send it to them, get their lawyers to look at it, review the review (continue loop, spend money, until completion)...
        It worked well for Epic with UT99 when IIRC a modder wrote a better render in opengl than their own because they had opened up the render backend code with the SDK.
        I don't really see how it would damage them to just release the source code to the opengl render .so file and a guide how to compile it. I seriously doubt that they have anything in there covered by patents/intellectual property.

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        • #79
          Another case

          Hi to all!

          I am a daily reader of phoronix news, but I don┤t go to the forums often. I just registered to summarize my experience on this matter just in case it is able to help someone.

          First, I use Debian SID in a eight-core Opteron 2378 with 16 GB of RAM. As a graphic card I bought some time ago a passive cooled Radeon 4670, because I was looking to some simple gaming needs and a silent card.

          The main use for my computer is experimentation, I try new software/techniques I can later deploy at work. From some time ago, the only 3D application I use is Heroes of Newerth. My desktop of choice is KDE, but I deactivated all the 3D effects.

          Until fglrx 10.4, the performance was correct. I will not tell you it was awesome, because I didn┤t run windows at that moment and I can┤t compare. But I was able to play properly.

          When I installed fglrx 10.5 the performance became abysmal. It was so bad that I quit playing HoN for long time. I kept it installed, and tried it sometimes with the new driver versions. After some months, I was able to play again with minimum settings.

          What I found at start, was that my gameplay level was much worse and I tought "how bad I┤ve become, I┤m getting older!!". Then, I had to install windows 7 on that machine too to check some things. And I remembered HoN, so installed and tried it.

          It was incredible. The default graphics were gorgeous in comparison, and the first game I played I found that the game was so fast that I always "overreacted". I was acting everytime too early, I was missing my Linux lag!!!! As everyone who plays this game knows, HoN is very fast paced and your reaction time is key. Now I understand my really bad level of play.

          In conclusion, HoN in a Radeon 4670 is not playable even at minimum settings without any 3D desktop. So, at this moment, S2 doesn┤t have a "working native Linux client" with my hardware. I am so dissapointed I refuse to play the game again on those conditions, and for sure I will not be rebooting to Windows just for a quick fun.

          I tried in a fast test HoN with wine. It is much faster, but as it usually happens with fglrx, the game presented graphic problems who made it unplayable.

          On the other hand, AMD free driver strategy seems to be working. When Squeeze was released, I tried their free radeon driver with a mesa version I got from the experimental repo (┐maybe 7.9?) and I was able to run the game!! It had some small problems, mainly the character and enemies were missing, but everything else was rendered correctly and fast enough.

          I just hope that soon with the latest r600g performance improvements it becomes playable I will test it again when I get some time.

          PD: BTW, thanks to bridgman, airlied and all the others involved in the radeon driver. It feels good to see how the situation is improving from some years ago

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          • #80
            and thats another hd 4xxx card
            like i said before i dont have those problems with 5770

            so is there anyone with the same slow perf problems with hd 5xxx series cards?

            or im just one hell a lucky guy who dont have the probs.

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            • #81
              Im pretty much impressed how much discussion about HoN performance is advancing. So, for some resume of the problem:
              • It happens since Catalyst 10.5
              • Its just HD4xxx cards issue (or anyone experiencing problem on older/newer GPUs?)
              • The OpenGL engine is slower, but not as slow to make game run below playable framerate on these GPUs (i can confirm that as i tried it like 2 months ago on slower nvidia GPU and played the game with all maxed and some antialiasing)
              Bridgman? Any comment from AMD side?

              PS: Thanks for everyones comment as this bug got enough publicity to get noticed by AMD. Thats exactly what i wanted.

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              • #82
                Can someone update the bug ticket with latest info ?

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                  Can someone update the bug ticket with latest info ?
                  link to the bug ticket ?

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                    link to the bug ticket ?
                    ... is on the first page of the thread... You know... That bug ticket you added a comment to on the 28th of august

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Schmaker View Post
                      PS: Thanks for everyones comment as this bug got enough publicity to get noticed by AMD. Thats exactly what i wanted.
                      Better yet: thanks to everyone who provided worthwhile info, for a change That's most probably what AMD wanted. Well, that and informative bug tickets.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by PsynoKhi0 View Post
                        ... is on the first page of the thread... You know... That bug ticket you added a comment to on the 28th of august
                        oh well thank you...

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                          Can someone update the bug ticket with latest info ?
                          ok i do the job for you http://ati.cchtml.com/show_bug.cgi?id=244

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                          • #88
                            What doing some benchmarks on PTS? I dont have idea how to create module for PTS, but if someone else do, it would give much better informations for AMD developers i guess. Propably Michael could add HoN profile to benchmarks as well.

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                            • #89
                              I have the same performance problem on my ATI mobility radeon 3470 (catalyst 11.10).

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                              • #90
                                The performance regression started in 10.5 fglrx. I think we need to make a phoronix test suite module for testing...

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