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  • #91
    Originally posted by devius View Post
    Yeah... people usually say that fglrx sucks because wine was only designed to work properly with nvidia. I also agree that judging anything in linux by its ability to play windows games is the same as judging ibm-pc compatible hardware (yes, I'm old school, from the time when "pc" and "windows" weren't the same thing) by its ability to run Mac OS.
    what you talking about ? back in the day, the PC could play MacOS Just fine, in fact it ran faster than the original mac Hardware in many cases..... the Amiga PC with a good MacOS Emulator that is

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    • #92
      You live in a dreamworld. opengl win games basically run with fullspeed, but d3d ones are MUCH slower, its just like a downgrade from a highend to a lowend card on games with hl2 engine or similar.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by Mr James View Post
        Because native Linux games are so numerous and amazing with cutting edge 3D and awesome stories.......
        And whose fault is that?

        BlackStar: I am currently in a country where NOBODY pays for Windows licenses and piracy is the norm. Yet I choose Linux because it is a superior OS. An OS for the intelligent.
        Great!

        And I am in my right mind - on nVidia those games run through wine exectly as they would on Windows.
        Weren't you saying that Linux is the superior OS? Because you seem to be implying that Windows is running games better than Linux does.

        In which case, maybe installing Windows would be the more intelligent choice after all?

        Wine is not an emulator - no performance reduction.
        Wine isn't an emulator because it performs worse. It's an emulator because it emulates Windows APIs. Performance is irrelevant.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
          Let me expand to the reality this very cut version of yours(talking about me being a joke).

          running proprietary not-native software, wine is opensource implementation of patented proprietary API of a very known company that is proved many times to have extremely strong fashistic intentions(as contrast to cross-platform), following proprietary API design and injecting it to linux together with copyrighted stuff(mscorefonts), whole folder of unneeded dll remaps and runtime hacks(wineserver), all wasting additional machine resources and uses openGL on linux(yay, why does it not work good with catalyst again?) and amd support openGL and wine on linux(instead of supporting the native drivers. Is Arma2 officially supported on wine? Do I see that on its wikipedia page? On official site? No, its windows only and amd is paying for a hack.).
          "running proprietary not-native software"

          yes you are a joke because there are opensource software for windows like: Virtual-Dup and opensource software like paint.net and opensource windows games with no linux port and wine can be used for playing an opensource windows game on linux an run an opensource windows app in linux.

          and you are just wrong with your thinking wine=clousedsource support.

          and software patends are not valid in all countrys do you think wine is only for the USA?

          "Is Arma2 officially supported on wine?"

          no arma2 is not supportet by wine and not supportet by crossover.

          "No, its windows only and amd is paying for a hack"

          ... no amd just paying for bugfixing bugs its not a hack.

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          • #95
            "You live in a dreamworld. "who does Kano , are you referring to Me ? if so 'back in the day' as in the MacOS HW was on 68000 and the Amiga was running on on 68020/68030 at a faster clock speed too.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
              You are confused.

              A full Linux system offers a comprehensive set of libraries and APIs, including the OpenGL API with a number of accelerated hardware drivers implementing it.

              If people instead write Windows games meant to run on Windows platform, this doesn't mean that a Linux implementation of Windows API is all of the sudden "3D in Linux". It just means that nobody is writing Linux games.

              WOW, Tomb Raider and Crysis don't run on Linux. They are not Linux programs. They are Windows programs. They are not "3d on Linux". That's the problem.

              Instead of AMD concentrating on Windows compatibility, I think that you should concentrate on Windows compatibility. By installing Windows
              No. Wine is fine, if someone does not like Windows for many reasons, including not wishing to INVEST money in the direction that will help development of MS monopoly.
              So, if that person does want to play Windows only game, and does not want to install or buy Windows - its fine.
              No one forces you to buy MSDOS, because you want to play MSDOS only game. You get DosBox and basta.

              Originally posted by Mr James View Post
              Because native Linux games are so numerous and amazing with cutting edge 3D and awesome stories.......

              BlackStar: I am currently in a country where NOBODY pays for Windows licenses and piracy is the norm. Yet I choose Linux because it is a superior OS. An OS for the intelligent. And I am in my right mind - on nVidia those games run through wine exectly as they would on Windows. Wine is not an emulator - no performance reduction.
              Wine is emulator. Judging on technical implementation it is not, it is a layer. But this layer allows winapi calls to posix which is emulation in broad term, as in "non-native". It does do performance penalty. Although, if linux version of function works 20 times faster than windows equivalent, and wine does it 2x slower - it runs 10 times faster via WINE than on windows. So wine does indeed slow software as any additional layer; its just local implementation not related to wine which sometimes accelerates the whole thing. And in case you wonder if wine can stay be faster than native(windows) api - it can't. MS will just steal the code.

              Wine is overgrown however. Instead of being a "Winapi layer for linux" it has transformed into "Linux layer for windows software". It is plain wrong if it stays the only option, because the real option is only native software. Software can be crossplatform, where you do not need any "layers". This is point.

              Regarding the piracy, ASTA is en-route in Europe.
              Mikhalkov, the public idiot, has already pushed a law charging percentage from empty storage devices(any) for reason paying "copyright holders" back. This means, in Russia, piracy is spread not not because its impossible to prevent it. It is spread out because yet nobody in Russia cares about - and as soon as RIAA or MIAA or simiar CRAP bribe some politican it will be illegal.

              Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
              I love the hipocricy. On one hand he pans open-source support for 6xxx cards, on the other hand he praises driver support for nvidia which doesn't even have OSS drivers for 4x0 and 5x0 - and not even a single open-source developer.

              Yeah, right.
              Opensource solution is not yet usable en-masse(developing concurrent 3D games on opensource driver, for example). Modern cards have no same-day support via opensource driver. Miscellaneous features are absent (such as video decode accel). Device gui control is absent. Whole patent mess is present(s3tc in opengl, sgi patents in ms hands). This needs at least 300 (as in "300 the film") developers, which must be payed. If I buy amd card I have no option to assist those devs. You buy the card and this does not support your intention - something must be done about it - that would be good start.

              I don't talk about catalyst driver here, one of the reason is it makes no sense switching cards for same proprietary drivers - no advantage.

              I think Panix is just forced to use Nvidia, thats it.

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              • #97
                Originally posted by Panix View Post
                Yeah, AMD provides great suport for the ATI cards!
                every one can make a mistake and yes amd need to fix that.

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Kano View Post
                  You live in a dreamworld. opengl win games basically run with fullspeed, but d3d ones are MUCH slower, its just like a downgrade from a highend to a lowend card on games with hl2 engine or similar.
                  But it's more intelligent to run them at half speed using Win API emulation, running on top of a Windows driver, and a proprietary GL stack (after online D3D -> GL conversion).

                  And whose fault is that?
                  AMD, obviously!

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                    No. Wine is fine, if someone does not like Windows for many reasons, including not wishing to INVEST money in the direction that will help development of MS monopoly.
                    So, if that person does want to play Windows only game, and does not want to install or buy Windows - its fine.
                    No one forces you to buy MSDOS, because you want to play MSDOS only game. You get DosBox and basta.
                    I don't have anything against WINE, it's a solution for people stuck with legacy apps. Tax app, for example.

                    But it is a hack, and will always be a hack.

                    If your intention is to buy a 10000$ gfx card, 20 AAA titles, and then turn your machine into a gaming rig, then you really, really should use Windows, and dual boot into Linux for serious work.

                    Spending all that money, and then running all that expensive software through an emulation layer on Linux, using essentially the Windows gfx stack and Windows API? That's just dumb.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                      And whose fault is that?
                      What does that have to do with anything?


                      Originally posted by BlackStar View Post
                      Weren't you saying that Linux is the superior OS? Because you seem to be implying that Windows is running games better than Linux does.

                      In which case, maybe installing Windows would be the more intelligent choice after all?
                      Nope. I'm saying nVidia is running games on linux better than ATI does. The problem is not Linux but rather the damn AMD driver - the point of this thread.


                      I am saying that as of today's date, real gaming in Linux is achieved through wine. Plain and simple. Is it the correct thing? No. Do I like this fact? No. Should it change? Yes. But this is reality my friend.

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