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Ati, when are we gonna get DECENT OpenGL support?

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  • Ati, when are we gonna get DECENT OpenGL support?

    Hi,

    After some programming hours to try graphical things with anti-aliasing (multisampling extension) through Qt i yet again found out that the opengl support for linux is still far from being mature!

    Another thing that annoys me a lot is something with textures.. I don't know where it's wrong but it certainly is going terrible wrong somewhere since various Qt + OpenGL examples can't display images.

    For the examples: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/trees/...navigator(both texture issue and aliasing are clearly vissible in here.

    So please, give us a driver that at the very least works! Handle performance in a later version but give us a working opengl!

    OpenGL 4 is in the ATI drivers for some months now and it still plain sucks.. I rather have a driver with fully working but older opengl driver then this crap.. This really makes me think to switch again to nvidia since they just.. work!

    Understand my annoyance in this problem. I spend hours to fix something just to find out i can't fix it! Only ATI can! What good is my 5770 card if i need to use software rendering simply because ATI fucks up the OpenGL support!

    Mark

  • #2
    Originally posted by markg85 View Post
    Hi,

    After some programming hours to try graphical things with anti-aliasing (multisampling extension) through Qt i yet again found out that the opengl support for linux is still far from being mature!

    Another thing that annoys me a lot is something with textures.. I don't know where it's wrong but it certainly is going terrible wrong somewhere since various Qt + OpenGL examples can't display images.

    For the examples: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/qt/trees/...navigator(both texture issue and aliasing are clearly vissible in here.

    So please, give us a driver that at the very least works! Handle performance in a later version but give us a working opengl!

    OpenGL 4 is in the ATI drivers for some months now and it still plain sucks.. I rather have a driver with fully working but older opengl driver then this crap.. This really makes me think to switch again to nvidia since they just.. work!

    Understand my annoyance in this problem. I spend hours to fix something just to find out i can't fix it! Only ATI can! What good is my 5770 card if i need to use software rendering simply because ATI fucks up the OpenGL support!

    Mark
    So far from my experience they don't seem to care about poor rendering/broken OpenGL functions on 5 series cards on Linux. There's various related bugs on the tracker they haven't responded to at all despite multiple users commenting on them/voting for them. Realistically I don't see them fixing it anytime soon, as many of these bugs were reported months ago.

    Actually, even on Windows there was a bug with Quake Live that went unfixed for a month. ATI just aren't that good with fixing OpenGL it seems. :

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Exopaladin View Post
      Actually, even on Windows there was a bug with Quake Live that went unfixed for a month. ATI just aren't that good with fixing OpenGL it seems. :
      Although I'm not a developer that uses OpenGL, I am a user of ATI's drivers. All I can say is that something not being fixed for only a month is really not alot to complain about - especially when it comes to commercially supported software.

      That is not to say that I think ATI should ignore bug reports...but I think people's expectations need to be more realistic.

      Also:

      Originally posted by markg85 View Post
      So please, give us a driver that at the very least works! Handle performance in a later version but give us a working opengl!
      I will agree that working towards fixing bugs is good thing, but please do not think that there aren't those of us that aren't concerned about performance. I've waited long enough for working ATI drivers that support my Mobility Radeon HD 5730 graphics device...the last few updates made major improvements in this area. If they hadn't focused on producing this, I'd still be stuck choosing between chunky 16-bit graphics or a 1024x768 resolution displayed on a 1600x900 display.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by mikeuw View Post
        I will agree that working towards fixing bugs is good thing, but please do not think that there aren't those of us that aren't concerned about performance. I've waited long enough for working ATI drivers that support my Mobility Radeon HD 5730 graphics device...the last few updates made major improvements in this area. If they hadn't focused on producing this, I'd still be stuck choosing between chunky 16-bit graphics or a 1024x768 resolution displayed on a 1600x900 display.
        I think you see it wrong (or just different).. The way i see it i have a 5770 card with OpenGL 4.0 support... wow you might think but barely anything in OpenGL seems to work the way it should work. (note that the same driver version but the windows version works so they CAN do it! it's just lazyness, time and money)

        The way i see it i have a good card with roughly no opengl support since opengl is broken thus i have no decent way to use it so i have no performance at all since i need to use software "acceleration"... So that's why i think it better to provide something that WORKS and performs poorly then claiming it is "supported" but just doesn't work thus has no performance!

        Comment


        • #5
          And to make mathers a lot more worse... My other computer with an OLDER integrated 4xxx card performs better and "works" with the same applications (the Qt application i pointed to earlier).. now that sucks hard!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by markg85 View Post
            I think you see it wrong (or just different).. The way i see it i have a 5770 card with OpenGL 4.0 support... wow you might think but barely anything in OpenGL seems to work the way it should work. (note that the same driver version but the windows version works so they CAN do it! it's just lazyness, time and money)
            The crazy thing is that supposedly all/most of the 3D code is supposed to be shared so it should work okay on all platforms, although OpenGL does have a few problems under Windows too. But yeah, I've just given up hope of the Linux drivers reaching parity with the Windows ones anytime soon so sold my 5850 and will have a nice GTX 460 soon

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by markg85 View Post
              I think you see it wrong (or just different).. The way i see it i have a 5770 card with OpenGL 4.0 support... wow you might think but barely anything in OpenGL seems to work the way it should work. (note that the same driver version but the windows version works so they CAN do it! it's just lazyness, time and money)

              The way i see it i have a good card with roughly no opengl support since opengl is broken thus i have no decent way to use it so i have no performance at all since i need to use software "acceleration"... So that's why i think it better to provide something that WORKS and performs poorly then claiming it is "supported" but just doesn't work thus has no performance!
              I generally agree with you...imagine my frustration when I bought a brand new machine with this ATI chip, and it had a total of zero Linux driver support for the first couple months that I had it - the best I could do was use kludge something together from unsupported/experimental drivers.

              I would argue your point about laziness though...the time and money aspect is probably more significant there. Ostensibly, this is the rationale for opening the specs for the open source community to develop open source drivers...although I can only guess if/when that will provide a solution for you.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mikeuw View Post
                I generally agree with you...imagine my frustration when I bought a brand new machine with this ATI chip, and it had a total of zero Linux driver support for the first couple months that I had it - the best I could do was use kludge something together from unsupported/experimental drivers.

                I would argue your point about laziness though...the time and money aspect is probably more significant there. Ostensibly, this is the rationale for opening the specs for the open source community to develop open source drivers...although I can only guess if/when that will provide a solution for you.
                well.. my guess is it will work somewhat on par with windows when ATI comes with the 6xxx series (or whatever number they make up).

                Btw, i had the same issue like you. When i bought my card i still had to wait ~2 months till the card worked under linux. At first even only vga=blabla then some weeks later the oss driver had very early support for it so i could at the very least work on my native resoltuion and roughly a month later the first ati driver with "support" came.

                So yeah, i understand perfectly

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Exopaladin View Post
                  So far from my experience they don't seem to care about poor rendering/broken OpenGL functions on 5 series cards on Linux. There's various related bugs on the tracker they haven't responded to at all despite multiple users commenting on them/voting for them. Realistically I don't see them fixing it anytime soon, as many of these bugs were reported months ago.

                  Actually, even on Windows there was a bug with Quake Live that went unfixed for a month. ATI just aren't that good with fixing OpenGL it seems. :
                  Haven't you figured it out... The ati driver on linux has priority given to the workstation users, not end users... That said, most bugs with wine, and games on linux do not get fixed quickly. Although, I will state that frequently the bugs on linux with ati cards and these applications are usually because the developers only test against NVidia cards... See the next 3 paragraphs as examples.

                  With that said, I do know that some programs get show stopper bugs. Like running Unreal Tournament 3 on wine with linux. Although, this bug is actually a nvidia driver bug causing ati cards to fail because the code is geared towards nvidia users.

                  Another bug would be the GLSL bugs with Radeon cards on xbmc. The major bugs with this was fixed after i provided some bug testing. (See the topic for patching this bug on revision 28256, as for a svn revision which works, Revision 30566 is the first revision that fixes this long standing bug.

                  A third bug would haft to be xbmc and any other application which uses the extension GLX_SGI_video_sync (Although, this one has been reported and acknowledged on the bug tracker) saying that frames are missed all the time.

                  with this said... The QT bug is not actually the application but the rendering api not properly being tested with ati cards.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dandel View Post
                    with this said... The QT bug is not actually the application but the rendering api not properly being tested with ati cards.
                    So you say Qt is the one buggy here and multisampling in the last catalyst driver is just working fine? That is fairly easy to test.. make an opengl application with the multisampling extension and you __should__ have nice anti-aliased lines...

                    Anyway, you seem to know exactly where the bugs are so could you perhaps report this to Qt? http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/secure/Dashboard.jspa

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      @dandel after some more consideration i think this really is a driver bug not a Qt bug. Why?
                      1. 2 other pc's with an older 4xxx card both work just fine with the same example and the same driver version
                      2. It works on windows (same driver, just a recompile and works even on my 5770)

                      So that certainly looks like a driver bug to me.

                      ATI: Get this fixed please!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dandel View Post
                        Although, I will state that frequently the bugs on linux with ati cards and these applications are usually because the developers only test against NVidia cards... See the next 3 paragraphs as examples.
                        Developers usually test against NVIDIA cards because the Linux driver actually works. It's a real pain to develop with ATI drivers. You have more chances to hit a driver bug than hitting a bug in your own program. i.e. if you develop a program and it crashes or doesn't work correctly: on NVIDIA platforms, you will suspect a bug in your program; on ATI platforms, you will firt suspect a bug in the driver because it's not reliable at all. And this generally is confirmed...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gbeauche View Post
                          Developers usually test against NVIDIA cards because the Linux driver actually works. It's a real pain to develop with ATI drivers. You have more chances to hit a driver bug than hitting a bug in your own program. i.e. if you develop a program and it crashes or doesn't work correctly: on NVIDIA platforms, you will suspect a bug in your program; on ATI platforms, you will firt suspect a bug in the driver because it's not reliable at all. And this generally is confirmed...
                          From reading all your forum posts, it seems you have a lot of fun programming for ATI cards Seriously though, Unigine runs just fine on my ATI card, even though it uses OpenGL 4. HOWEVER, I do see why you in particular could suffer from this. You programmed the XvBA -> VA-API program, correct? Could it just be that you wandered into no mans' land (XvBA stuff,) or is it across the whole platform? I do quite enjoy your developing for NVIDIA vs ATI stint though.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by LinuxID10T View Post
                            From reading all your forum posts, it seems you have a lot of fun programming for ATI cards Seriously though, Unigine runs just fine on my ATI card, even though it uses OpenGL 4. HOWEVER, I do see why you in particular could suffer from this. You programmed the XvBA -> VA-API program, correct? Could it just be that you wandered into no mans' land (XvBA stuff,) or is it across the whole platform? I do quite enjoy your developing for NVIDIA vs ATI stint though.
                            My ATI platform in on the desk so that I can easily reach the reset/poweroff button... I also suffer from the fact that I have to write crap code and other workarounds to get something working kind-of. This is mentally troublesome.

                            ATI HW is good, only the SW on Linux is a pain. The platform is also good, and I am looking forward to using Bobcat/Bulldozer chips. Unfortunately, awful SW can ruin everything. It's a shame, and terribly frustrating. The most frustrating thing is support and bugs fixing from NVIDIA & Intel is way faster (even on GMA500) although we have *no* official support/project with them normally. And this was again proven no longer than this morning.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              @LinuxID10T

                              Your definition of "perfect" would be differnet when you would own a hd 5 card and use the ATI 10-7 driver - OpenGL is broken with tesselation on Linux AND Win!

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