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  • Probably on future generations nvidia will be recovered of several hardware and mainly manufacturing errors they are suffering. But certainly the fermi generation is a complete disaster.

    Anyway they remain *very* strong on some points:

    - Cuda 3.0 is better than openCL
    - VDPAU

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
      Probably on future generations nvidia will be recovered of several hardware and mainly manufacturing errors they are suffering. But certainly the fermi generation is a complete disaster.

      Anyway they remain *very* strong on some points:

      - Cuda 3.0 is better than openCL
      - VDPAU
      In what areas is Cuda better than OpenCL? I have just finished a project with OpenCL from AMD's stream SDK 2.1. Last year I did a project with CUDA 2.1.

      Comment


      • I still don't understand why we are discussing whether the forum posts on the internet somewhere are written by nvidia users or amd users. It's a useless discussion.

        Go to your local retailer, get a graphics card, test it on your computer, and if you don't like it, give it back.

        It will take you half a day, instead of making theories on forum posts for weeks.

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        • Originally posted by Hans View Post
          In what areas is Cuda better than OpenCL? I have just finished a project with OpenCL from AMD's stream SDK 2.1. Last year I did a project with CUDA 2.1.
          I have read 2 papers, only by curiosity and not in detail, i don't program with cuda or opencl. I didn't save them, but it will be easy to find them on google again.

          Mainly cuda 3.0 offers more facility, more integrated functions, and more performance. Some projects already implemented on cuda 3.0 were ported to openCL with worst results and an extra difficulty while implementing/optimizing them.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
            I still don't understand why we are discussing whether the forum posts on the internet somewhere are written by nvidia users or amd users. It's a useless discussion.

            Go to your local retailer, get a graphics card, test it on your computer, and if you don't like it, give it back.

            It will take you half a day, instead of making theories on forum posts for weeks.
            What makes you think you can buy a card and bring it back because 'you don't like it?' Someone already posted this, why are you telling ppl to do this, still?

            There's some big box stores where you might be able to do this but the cards have a huge markup compared to the typical price of an online vendor for the same or similar card.

            Anyway, I'm resigned to give up criticizing. Most of my future posts will be reserved for specific questions.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
              I have read 2 papers, only by curiosity and not in detail, i don't program with cuda or opencl. I didn't save them, but it will be easy to find them on google again.

              Mainly cuda 3.0 offers more facility, more integrated functions, and more performance. Some projects already implemented on cuda 3.0 were ported to openCL with worst results and an extra difficulty while implementing/optimizing them.
              Okay, thx for your answer. I might look into it.
              From my experience, OpenCL's and CUDA's kernel language is very much a like. Its just that OpenCL is harder to set up before the exectution of the kernels. You have to set up some vendor specific parameters like kernel size, which is totally different between nvidia and ati hardware.

              Though you are actually able to tweak your OpenCL app to vendor specific optimizations before the kernel executions. But that part is harder, than just use CUDA with nvidia hardware. I still prefer OpenCL though, because AMD hardware tends to be faster than nvidia in OpenCL due to a higher number of mikro-processors within the GPU.

              If you are only working with nvidia hardware, CUDA might be better. But if you compare CUDA on nvidia hardware vs OpenCL on Ati hardware, you might see better performance with OpenCL due to stronger hardware. At least thats my experience.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Panix View Post
                There's some big box stores where you might be able to do this but the cards have a huge markup compared to the typical price of an online vendor for the same or similar card. questions.
                I personally could live with a $15 markup if this saved me months of arguing on the internet, and STILL not resolving the only relevant question.

                Comment


                • Buying a card to test is not viable for everybody. Not everybody has access to some kind of big box store, and even then I don't know any store that would take something back simply because "you don't like it".

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Hans View Post
                    Okay, thx for your answer. I might look into it.
                    From my experience, OpenCL's and CUDA's kernel language is very much a like. Its just that OpenCL is harder to set up before the exectution of the kernels. You have to set up some vendor specific parameters like kernel size, which is totally different between nvidia and ati hardware.

                    Though you are actually able to tweak your OpenCL app to vendor specific optimizations before the kernel executions. But that part is harder, than just use CUDA with nvidia hardware. I still prefer OpenCL though, because AMD hardware tends to be faster than nvidia in OpenCL due to a higher number of mikro-processors within the GPU.

                    If you are only working with nvidia hardware, CUDA might be better. But if you compare CUDA on nvidia hardware vs OpenCL on Ati hardware, you might see better performance with OpenCL due to stronger hardware. At least thats my experience.
                    The papers i looked were from universities, some communications and math projects. That plp are not ati or nvidia fans XD but they marked that cuda 3.0 was better. Obviously openCL is the future because is open, and continously improved. But nowadays in the performance / easy implemaentation cuda 3.0 seems to win. If i don't remember bad, openCL has some memory management problems which makes worse the performance, and to partially avoid these problems you have to program very hard!.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                      I personally could live with a $15 markup if this saved me months of arguing on the internet, and STILL not resolving the only relevant question.
                      It's way more than $15.

                      One can buy a card and not be happy with it. They can send it back and get a re-stocking fee. That's if they can get away with saying 'they don't like it.' Or they can pay from $50 and up for the same card at a big box store.

                      Anyway, if there is no return option for 'not liking the card,' they can sell it but will take a hit for that as well. It's not so simple as you're implying.

                      But, yes, one should have the card and try it for the experience as possible. Easier to discuss it, too, I gather...

                      Okay, I'm done ...leaving the discussion unless I have a technical question.

                      Comment


                      • Perhaps this differs depending on where you are.

                        In Germany, any big electronics retailer will take things back if you say that it doesn't work satisfactorily, no questions asked. I gave back a camera after being appalled by the image quality, and got my money back 5 minutes later.

                        A local computer shop happily let me test laptop memory on my computer before buying.

                        But hey, my card is working fine.

                        Comment


                        • I've been following this thread for a couple of days now and I thought I'd give my $0.02...

                          Coming from someone who recently switched from an 8800GT to (an arguably much more powerful) 5770, I have to say that I agree with the OP--the Ati drivers for Linux are "rubbish" when compared to Nvidia drivers.

                          Tearing with compositing enabled, no video acceleration, slow minimizing/maximizing/resizing...

                          Yes, many of these problems are solved with patches (backclear), workarounds (mplayer with GL), etc...As much as I hate to say it (I happen to like AMD by the way), my Nvidia card had none of these problems.

                          I'm looking forward to progress with fglrx, but it just isn't there yet.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by mirv View Post
                            Buying a card to test is not viable for everybody. Not everybody has access to some kind of big box store, and even then I don't know any store that would take something back simply because "you don't like it".
                            Well fortunately thats a law in my country. If the thing you have bought doesn't comply with what you expected, you have 14 days to return it and get all your money back by law.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                              The papers i looked were from universities, some communications and math projects. That plp are not ati or nvidia fans XD but they marked that cuda 3.0 was better. Obviously openCL is the future because is open, and continously improved. But nowadays in the performance / easy implemaentation cuda 3.0 seems to win. If i don't remember bad, openCL has some memory management problems which makes worse the performance, and to partially avoid these problems you have to program very hard!.
                              Yeah that might be true. I am not a CUDA or OpenCL expert. But it surprises me though, because as far as I remember nvidia just translates your OpenCL code into CUDA. Which lead me to think they have similar performance? But I might be wrong on that one.

                              Regarding the memory management. Isn't that just an issue with the implementation of OpenCL and not the API? Is that an issue with both vendors?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Hans View Post
                                Well fortunately thats a law in my country. If the thing you have bought doesn't comply with what you expected, you have 14 days to return it and get all your money back by law.
                                Sadly I've tried it (not with video cards mind you) and they didn't take it back because it did "what was stated, not what was expected". I don't see many boxes with tux on it, and even then I use gentoo, so I kind of expect such stores to try screw me around.

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