Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

ATI and Linux compatibility

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
    you read what you highlighted???
    Yes.

    (on wine and natively)?

    See that big word. At the moment it means it's most sensible to go with nVidia at the moment. If you have to go ATI you may be able to get your Windows program going as well under fglrx as you can with nVidia, but it's certainly not guaranteed.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by mugginz View Post
      (on wine and natively)?
      a lot of better now, only highligh wine. In this case nvidia is better. I already said this on 3rd post.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
        a lot of better now, only highligh wine. In this case nvidia is better. I already said this on 3rd post.
        But last time I checked nVidias drivers supported GTX 480 and the 480 is faster than a 5870 so no, your assumption that ATI is always better than nVidia for NATIVE games is flawed.

        Comment


        • #64
          Obviously not on all. This is difficult, there are always a game that runs better on some drivers or specific GPU. I have no idea at all on this. I only pointed that ati hardware is good, and native opengl too.

          For exemple i would love to see a unigine benchmarks of ati 5950 vs fermi.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
            Obviously not on all. This is difficult, there are always a game that runs better on some drivers or specific GPU. I have no idea at all on this. I only pointed that ati hardware is good, and native opengl too.

            For exemple i would love to see a unigine benchmarks of ati 5950 vs fermi.
            But to base any decisions of FPS would likely end up in sadness if the use case is not only native games but also wine. And then there are the GPU high-def decode issues as well as the XV ones mentioned earlier.

            When your OS/driver/hardware combo will support your selected software, only then can FPS be a determining issue. If your software doesn't run to begin with then I guess that could be considered 0 FPS.

            Comment


            • #66
              You argued that nvidia blob was better. I was arguing that fglrx can compete with native opengl (not 2d and video accel).

              wine 3d devs work with nvidia hardware and develops focusing mainly on nvida. No discussion here, i am with you, nvidia = more compatibility with wine.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                You argued that nvidia blob was better.
                Yes because I belive it is better.


                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                I was arguing that fglrx can compete with native opengl (not 2d and video accel).
                You're also arguing other things as well, but to your point re fglrx and nVidia native 3D. Sometimes fglrx can compete with the nVidia blob and sometimes it can't. On the balance of probabilities you're far more likely to have a more satisfying Linux gaming experience with an nVidia card at the moment. You seem to be sugesting that this isn't the case. This I can't agree with.

                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                wine 3d devs work with nvidia hardware and develops focusing mainly on nvida. No discussion here, i am with you, nvidia = more compatibility with wine.
                Wine was one of the OP's requirements. Not to mention that when a composited desktop is thrown in the mix there have been many reported issues with fglrx for native 3D as well.

                Comment


                • #68
                  mugginz, you clearly stated:

                  The strawman of opensource vs closed source drivers is often brought up by those ATI fanbois
                  You were talking about the issue of open source drivers in general, not only when applied to OpenGL 3+ running under Wine.

                  And my replies were related to that.

                  "The strawman" of open source vs. closed source is hardly a strawman for many people in many circumstances.

                  The fact remains that nVidia does not release specs, and you can't sweep that under the carpet just because their drivers work better under Wine. This reason alone is enough for me to choose ATi, even if this means that I can only run 30% of Windows games through Wine instead of 15%, and even if I get 60 fps in Quake instead of 80.

                  For the vast majority of uses today, the open ATi drivers are just fine, and in some cases (Kernel modesetting) even superior to the blobs. And THIS is why the ATi fanbois "often" argue the point.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                    mugginz, you clearly stated:

                    The strawman of opensource vs closed source drivers is often brought up by those ATI fanbois
                    You were talking about the issue of open source drivers in general, not only when applied to OpenGL 3+ running under Wine.
                    No, I'm talking about the level of reliable functionality that one can expect of a graphics card under Linux. Others wish to recast the debate into one of open vs closed source software development.

                    Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                    And my replies were related to that.

                    "The strawman" of open source vs. closed source is hardly a strawman for many people in many circumstances.
                    Again, what does the developement methodology of the device driver have to do with whether or not you can play a game under wine on a Linux box?

                    Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                    The fact remains that nVidia does not release specs, and you can't sweep that under the carpet just because their drivers work better under Wine.
                    Who's sweeping what under the carpet? People want to ignore the nVidia blobs superiority and instead try to steer the discussion away from that and onto whether it's morally correct to use closed or open source drivers.

                    Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                    This reason alone is enough for me to choose ATi, even if this means that I can only run 30% of Windows games through Wine instead of 15%, and even if I get 60 fps in Quake instead of 80.
                    But then you're putting the cart before the horse. If you need the card to support a wide range of software then you don't have the luxury of deliberately reducing you're range of software just to satisfy the development process the drivers are developed with.


                    Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                    For the vast majority of uses today, the open ATi drivers are just fine, and in some cases (Kernel modesetting) even superior to the blobs. And THIS is why the ATi fanbois "often" argue the point.
                    How does nice virtual terminal switching or nice boot splash screen help me to run games under wine?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                      How does nice virtual terminal switching or nice boot splash screen help me to run games under wine?
                      Apart from being able to see the kernel oopses without a serial terminal when a device driver goes belly up.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Let me list my experience so far. That is the experienced regarding fglrx is from some time last summer. What I was using at that time was kde 4.2 on gentoo unstable, amd64. Since last summer I am using the open source driver since that time, the reason being the missing xorg-server 1.7.x support in fglrx. I do track the latest changes. I am even using mesa/xf86-video-ati/libdrm from git. My graphics card is an HD3850 512MB and my CPU is a Core2Quad 9300. Here is my experience:

                        fglrx:
                        Native games (ET:QW, Ankh, Ankh2, JackKeane, Sacred: Gold, ...): Flawless experience, games run really fast
                        2D usage with Desktop effects (kwin): Worked acceptable. I had no real problems with those. It was fast enough for me and my every day usage. There was no DRI2, so you could not move OpenGL windows around nicely. No idea if this has changed so far.
                        Watching videos: Xv had some tearing in it but VSynced OpenGL was fine as long as I was just using one display. Since I tend to use 2 displays there is tearing on one of the two simple because the screens are not identical. I do mirror the content of my 1920x1200 Desktop display on my 1920x1080 TV.
                        3D Games in wine: I have no experience with those since if I want to play Windows native games I tend to boot Windows.

                        open source stack:
                        Native games: Not all do work due to problems with S3TC (patent encrumbed!) as well as some problems with the ogre engine. It is significantly slower, but eg World of Goo does run perfectly with current mesa. Sacred: Gold is significantly slower but playable since some weeks ago. I have not tried ET:QW yet. Ankh2 and JackKeane do crash at the moment.
                        2D usage with Desktop effects: Works perfectly. Faster than fglrx and zero problems at all! There is even DRI2, so moving opengl windows around it no problem at all. I am using KMS, so even the plain terminal without xorg does offer a decent resolution.
                        Watching videos: Xv does work nicely as long as just one screen is involved. When two screens are used and one mirrors the other you will get sync artifacts. I got no problem with software decoding HD videos.
                        3D Games in wine: I have no experience with those since if I want to play Windows native games I tend to boot Windows.

                        I got no experiences regarding the nvidia drivers so I don't know if they were better for my usecase or not. I am just very satisfied with what my card does offer me. Yes, I do use the open source driver, because it does "just work". I don't know if I would buy an ATI card for playing with wine though.
                        In general my experience with fglrx was that it does work rather good. From what I heard the driver has significantly improved over the last year, so it would probably be even better now. Though you have to know how to install it best and personally I'd recommend to always do it via your package manager (if possible) or you might end screwed in the end.

                        So for my usecase with "no WINE usage" I'd always buy another ATI card. Regarding WINE: I'd have a look at the appdb and check if the games I play are listed and if problems with ATI are mentioned. If not: order an ATI card, test if it *does* work for you and the games you play and if it does not send it back to the shop asking for an nvidia card.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                          You're also arguing other things as well
                          Yeah, of course, can I?

                          speaking of native opengl you said:

                          Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                          Sometimes fglrx can compete with the nVidia blob and sometimes it can't.
                          Can you post better arguments than your feelings? some *recent* benchmarks?
                          I pointed that i have no serious idea about that, but that i liked unigine numbers for example, i read that opengl is very good with fglrx. More objective data is needed here.


                          WINE is always the shield of nvidia fanboys , seriously boot windows is even beter than wine + nvidia!!. It's a real pitty what this application is doing to ATI.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Who's sweeping what under the carpet? People want to ignore the nVidia blobs superiority and instead try to steer the discussion away from that and onto whether it's morally correct to use closed or open source drivers.
                            No, people are saying that having to run a piece of hardware which is keeping secrets from you is an important consideration when purchasing a video card. Especially when the official binary drivers sometimes fry your card, and you have to hope for the best when you use them.

                            You are saying that ultimate performance is the ONLY consideration, and this might be the case for you, but it is only one of several considerations for many people running Linux.

                            We have open drivers and specs for almost everything running in a modern computer, and I don't see why video cards should be any different.

                            If you need the card to support a wide range of software then you don't have the luxury of deliberately reducing you're range of software just to satisfy the development process the drivers are developed with.
                            Sure. I can't run OpenGL 3+ stuff using open drivers ATM.

                            But I don't need to. So I can run software based on open specs and open drivers.

                            And many people out there are in the same boat.

                            It would be really stupid for many users to run a secret binary blob running over secret hardware because it is capable of doing things that most users will never ever need.

                            How does nice virtual terminal switching or nice boot splash screen help me to run games under wine?
                            It doesn't but running games under wine doesn't help you with fast (and reliable!!!) VT switching either.

                            The advantage of the open drivers is that you profit from all the common infrastructure, such as having no xorg.conf, having KMS, making use of the Gallium state trackers in the future, and best of all -- having all of it work out of the box, and not having to download cryptic binaries from cryptic URLs -- i HATED that about nVidia.

                            The suggestion that we should abandon the open source ideals just because some kid wants to play WoW under Wine is frankly ridiculous.

                            The wine kid can get his nVidia, and the rest of us can enjoy open drivers. Though I assume that the wine kid would have a much better time running Windows games under Windows in the first place.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                              Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                              You're also arguing other things as well
                              Yeah, of course, can I?
                              You sounded like you were trying to re-cast you argument to one revolving around just native 3D. In this discussion that would be disingenuous as part of the software suite needed by the OP is wine, amongst other things.

                              You can make arguments about the other points and you should but the fact remains that at the moment nVidia is still the better choice for the OP's criteria.

                              Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                              speaking of native opengl you said:

                              Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                              Sometimes fglrx can compete with the nVidia blob and sometimes it can't.
                              Can you post better arguments than your feelings? some *recent* benchmarks?
                              I pointed that i have no serious idea about that, but that i liked unigine numbers for example, i read that opengl is very good with fglrx. More objective data is needed here.
                              No, more data isn't required. How does FPS help when the software wont even start under fglrx?


                              Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                              WINE is always the shield of nvidia fanboys , seriously boot windows is even beter than wine + nvidia!!. It's a real pitty what this application is doing to ATI.
                              The ability to run wine is also quite relevant when the OP is asking:

                              Originally posted by dmrauss View Post
                              Hi! I've been researching for hardware to buy a new computer. As I only use Linux but never used any ATI graphic card and a friend of mine said a while ago the combination is by any means no good, I wondered if the scenario changed over the years. Searching on internet, found AMD website FAQ, which states that "ATI Proprietary Linux driver currently supports Radeon 8500 and later AGP or PCI Express graphics products" (http://ati.amd.com/products/catalyst/linux.html#2)

                              You, Linux users, owners of ATI cards, would you please tell if it's possible to do the combination Linux/ATI and still play performance demanding games (on wine and natively)?

                              I searched but couldn't find useful and **updated** material on internet. Most of material are from past 5 years!!

                              Thanks in advance,
                              Rauss.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                you are breaking the post, is already answered that nvidia is better for wine (read the first page of the thread please)

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X