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  • #31
    Originally posted by mugginz View Post
    People rightly are basing their purchasing decisions on the successes and failures of others. Of course you want to know what you're getting yourself into before you buy, not after.

    This doesn't respond to the fact that a lot of plp are talking about ati without having one, based on criticism posted by other people.


    Originally posted by mugginz View Post
    Yes but that's not a 5000 series card. To get power management there you either need to upgrade your kernel (not something everyones comfortable with) or run fglrx (again, not something everyones comfortable with )
    [/QUOTE]


    Have you tried to install 10.4 on evergreen card? have you see if it does power management or not? My guess is that is working pretty fine (but i am only guessing based on that v8800 card is working on michael windows vs ubuntu test)

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    • #32
      Heiko has posted too in this thread that his 5770 is working fine with fglrx drivers. I am pretty sure that evergreen is working very well, with 3d and powersave.

      The fact that opensource doesnt have powersave is already posted in 3rd post, we all agree on that no need to repeat.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
        This doesn't respond to the fact that a lot of plp are talking about ati without having one, based on criticism posted by other people.
        Yes, they're making a judgement call on whether or not what they're reading about other peoples experiences are relevant to them or not. Do you seriously expect people to buy hardware in the face of other people reporting that it's quite common to have problems with its drivers? It's not like it's unusual to have issues with Evergreen cards on Linux.


        Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
        Have you tried to install 10.4 on evergreen card? have you see if it does power management or not? My guess is that is working pretty fine (but i am only guessing based on that v8800 card is working on michael windows vs ubuntu test)
        10.4 reportedly does power management on Evergreen cards.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
          Heiko has posted too in this thread that his 5770 is working fine with fglrx drivers. I am pretty sure that evergreen is working very well, with 3d and powersave.
          And others have posted that they're also having success with 5770's and 10.4. Then, and it's very important to keep this in mind, then they say things like yeh, it fine except for this and that. And to get this to work, you have to use that work around, install this kernel or that patch.

          Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
          The fact that opensource doesnt have powersave is already posted in 3rd post, we all agree on that no need to repeat.
          Someone had posted that the FOSS driver doesn't do power management for Evergreen unless you're using an extremely recent kernel. .33 or .34 kernel I think. The important thing to note is that if you need power management of Evergreen cards via a FOSS driver you need to be picky about you're distro/software stack.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by mugginz View Post
            Yes, they're making a judgement call on whether or not what they're reading about other peoples experiences are relevant to them or not. Do you seriously expect people to buy hardware in the face of other people reporting that it's quite common to have problems with its drivers? It's not like it's unusual to have issues with Evergreen cards on Linux.
            Internet can inform you or miss inform you, some users (inexperienced or maybe unlucky with distro confs) may have problem with his evergreen performance
            and write a post with his frustrations / problems, other nvidia user come to "the fiesta" some inexperienced users read and decide that ati doesnt work. The plague is formed!! for example read HD4850+lucid+fglrx = horrible performance (what a title!! ati doesn't work ).

            Originally posted by mugginz View Post
            10.4 reportedly does power management on Evergreen cards.
            ok, tell panix, i was already convinced.

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            • #36
              BTW, how is workinhg nvidia opensource power management, is in good shape?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                Internet can inform you or miss inform you, some users (inexperienced or maybe unlucky with distro confs) may have problem with his evergreen performance
                and write a post with his frustrations / problems,
                While a non-critical reading of any topic from the internet can produce misguided observations, that doesn't mean a careful weighing of that facts as reported by many wont produce a decent understanding of the general landscape of issues.

                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                other nvidia user come to "the fiesta" some inexperienced users read and decide that ati doesnt work. The plague is formed!! for example read HD4850+lucid+fglrx = horrible performance (what a title!! ati doesn't work ).
                You're assuming that the problems people are reporting about Evergreen under Linux are unfounded. A wide reading of the subject seems to suggest that it's far from uncommon to have issues with fglrx and Evergreen.

                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                ok, tell panix, i was already convinced.
                I think Panix has a range of concerns re: Evergreen and Linux with power management being just one of them.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                  BTW, how is workinhg nvidia opensource power management, is in good shape?
                  If anyone wants to use an nVidia card with open-source drivers they're in for some disappointment. The strawman of opensource vs closed source drivers is often brought up by those ATI fanbois though when they realise the state of fglrx vs nVidia blob.

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                  • #39
                    The strawman of opensource vs closed source drivers is often brought up by those ATI fanbois
                    Why is that a strawman? ATi's FOSS drivers are miles ahead of nVidia's ATM, and this is closely related to the fact that ATi is not boycotting the effort, but investing money in helping it.

                    Are you people so anti open-source that you don't see how ANYONE would value open drivers for the fact that they are open?

                    nVidia blob is better than fglrx. Few will disagree with this.

                    But for those of us who really care about open source software, this is a totally irrelevant piece of information. If you don't want a blob, ATi or Intel are what you want, not nVidia.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                      Why is that a strawman? ATi's FOSS drivers are miles ahead of nVidia's ATM, and this is closely related to the fact that ATi is not boycotting the effort, but investing money in helping it.
                      Well that's a very good question. Lets look at why someone would want to use a closed source driver. Most of the issues that come to my mind relate to issues of performance relating to rendering speed but there are also those that relate to enabling the complete feature set of a particular piece of hardware. Not all open source drivers enable all the functionality of its target hardware. It's much more common to see complete hardware enablement from closed source drivers rather than open source ones.

                      Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                      Are you people so anti open-source that you don't see how ANYONE would value open drivers for the fact that they are open?
                      What has making your hardware work as intended got to do with open vs closed source software development methodologies.

                      Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                      nVidia blob is better than fglrx. Few will disagree with this.
                      Excactly. And where the best and complete functionality of hardware is required this is where people should look.

                      Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                      But for those of us who really care about open source software, this is a totally irrelevant piece of information.
                      How so? You can really care about open source software and also use closed source drivers.

                      Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                      If you don't want a blob, ATi or Intel are what you want, not nVidia.
                      Exactly. If you put the development methodology of your driver above the functionality you need then clearly you shouldn't buy an nVidia card.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                        You're assuming that the problems people are reporting about Evergreen under Linux are unfounded. A wide reading of the subject seems to suggest that it's far from uncommon to have issues with fglrx and Evergreen.
                        I think the real problem is that ati is always a little late to come with support, If you purchased an evergreen in october 2009 then really you had problems. This is a common problem with linux in general You have to know if your hardware is supported i guess a lot of problems were posted with ati were with 9.12 , 10.1. Evergreen + fglrx 10.4 + ubuntu lucid should be working fine now. If some evergreen (an experienced) user can post his comments should be fine too.

                        Nvidia blob is better? yes! mainly in 2d, are native opengl applications better in navidia blob than on ati blob? ummmm i would love to see a nice benchmarks.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
                          Why is that a strawman? ATi's FOSS drivers are miles ahead of nVidia's ATM, and this is closely related to the fact that ATi is not boycotting the effort, but investing money in helping it.
                          I should add that the reason I call it a strawman in this context is that when the discussion relates to what functionality one can expect from fglrx vs nVidia blob, and then it becomes clear that nVidia blob is vastly superior, most ATI fanbois then try to steer the argument into one of open vs closed source drivers.

                          If you're talking solely about open source drivers then the clear winner is ATI. If you're talking about full functionality, which is what I believe is being discussed here, then nVidia is the leader on Linux at the moment. They may change relatively soon, but that depends on AMD's development team.

                          To bring up the development methodology of the driver in this context seems to be largely putting the cart in front of the horse.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by mugginz View Post
                            I should add that the reason I call it a strawman in this context is that when the discussion relates to what functionality one can expect from fglrx vs nVidia blob, and then it becomes clear that nVidia blob is vastly superior, most ATI fanbois then try to steer the argument into one of open vs closed source drivers.
                            Who says this post was a discussion about fglrx vs nvidia blob?

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                              I think the real problem is that ati is always a little late to come with support, If you purchased an evergreen in october 2009 then really you had problems.
                              Indeed. Many bought cards on the promise of good support coming along "real soon now"tm and got burnt. They watched their hardware go stale while waiting for good drivers.


                              Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                              This is a common problem with linux in general You have to know if your hardware is supported
                              Indeed and this is largely what's motivating this thread I would've thought. Someone's trying to ascertain the level of quality functionality of ATI on Linux before purchasing.

                              Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                              i guess a lot of problems were posted with ati were with 9.12 , 10.1. Evergreen + fglrx 10.4 + ubuntu lucid should be working fine now. If some evergreen (an experienced) user can post his comments should be fine too.
                              Some are still complaining of issues with fglrx and Ubuntu 10.04

                              Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                              Nvidia blob is better? yes! mainly in 2d, are native opengl applications better in navidia blob than on ati blob? ummmm i would love to see a nice benchmarks.
                              And better in 3D across a wide range of use cases as well. Wine support for fglrx seems to be improving though thankfully. Also, what's with the issues people are having with KDE4 compositing and fglrx?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                                Who says this post was a discussion about fglrx vs nvidia blob?
                                Originally posted by dmrauss View Post
                                Hi! I've been researching for hardware to buy a new computer. As I only use Linux but never used any ATI graphic card and a friend of mine said a while ago the combination is by any means no good, I wondered if the scenario changed over the years. Searching on internet, found AMD website FAQ, which states that "ATI Proprietary Linux driver currently supports Radeon 8500 and later AGP or PCI Express graphics products" (http://ati.amd.com/products/catalyst/linux.html#2)

                                You, Linux users, owners of ATI cards, would you please tell if it's possible to do the combination Linux/ATI and still play performance demanding games (on wine and natively)?

                                I searched but couldn't find useful and **updated** material on internet. Most of material are from past 5 years!!

                                Thanks in advance,
                                Rauss.
                                Given the first post is inquiring about high performance graphics I would've thought blobs were a prerequisite here.

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