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10.4/fglrx in Lucid w/ ATI HD 4xxx or 5xxx

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  • #16
    Sorry to interrupt but I was wondering how many patches are needed and for which problems/issues/features. I suspect some people who already have ATI cards get annoyed at my (and others') generic questions so maybe I should shut up or buy a card already. But, I just want to know what I'm getting into if I buy a card. I like the suggestion to get a cheaper card and wait: the HD 4xxx cards will probably still have a market and then I could wait for the newer Fermi or A) just keep the card or B) upgrade to HD 5xxx if everything is progressing nicely.

    I thought it might be useful to have a chart like the x.org wiki chart except that it lists various patches and authors links to either here (where the patch code is discussed) or someone's page (for e.g., a blog). If patches are needed often, it might save some time and be helpful. Maybe make for less frustration? Just a suggestion.

    One other comment I wanted to make. A lot of 'pro-ATI' ppl saying to get ATI card for open source and how things will ultimately improve. A nice ideal is good but what about laptop owners with ATI cards? They can't just 'give up' and switch to Nvidia. If progression with drivers is slow and there's bugs, they have to live with them. I know if I had a brand new laptop with an ATI card, I would want power saving and full features working. I'm not going to wave a towel and yell, 'yay, open source.' I just want things to work. I guess if you have an extra computer, you can wait but what if your only computer has an ATI card?

    Ideals are great but if ATI/AMD truly wish to support Linux, this 'progression' needs to happen faster and more features have to be included (XvMA, hardware acceleration, power saving etc.). You can have the best hardware in the world but if the drivers don't allow you to use the card to its fullest or what you want to do, then it's all moot.

    I was wondering about fglrx in the latest Ubuntu because I would probably change my desktop system over to it when it's released. So, if it happens this timing coincides with a video card upgrade, I wanted to have some idea of what to expect if it's an ATI card.

    Some great replies/responses so far and many thanks for some valuable info! I'll keep reading with great interest and it should help make my decision easier. My current GPU is a EVGA 7950GT and it might be fine still but I haven't stressed it all really. So, I'm not sure how it'll go if I do anything else with it. It should be fine but I don't like being without a backup card. I think I have an ATI X300SE still but I loaned it to someone as their backup.

    Anyway, sorry to interupt...Carry on...

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    • #17
      Not sure I understand the question. Other than early support for new kernels (which isn't usually an issue on supported distros) there has only been one patch discussed, ie the "backclear" patch Felix provided to replace the old "104 no backfill" patch that most distros had been shipping for years (until early 2009).

      The binary drivers already have the features you mention, with the possible exception of XvMA (what is that ?).

      Honestly, I don't think asking more questions is going to help. You're already deep in the "it depends on other decisions you make" zone, where other people's experiences are only peripherally relevent to what you experience.

      If you want to collect more useful experience I think you need to start building a more specific set of questions, ie "I'm planning to do *these* things on *this* distro with *this* other hardware". That way people will be able to give you more specific answers and you won't have to keep asking all the "but what if something goes wrong ?" questions that nobody can answer anyways.

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      • #18
        Sorry, one last part to the other post: I was wondering how temps in Linux. My current card, as I said, 7950 GT gets about 47 to 50 degrees, give or take, idle. I think it's around the same in Windows. I haven't really compared it, lately. I don't know if this is typical for this card but it seems acceptable.

        I'm wondering how a HD 4850 or HD 4770 would do for temps in Linux and whether there's a big change depending on whether you use FOSS driver or the FGLRX driver. So, 1) what are the temps? 2) what are the temps using a)foss driver; b)binary fglrx driver

        Also, of course, I am curious what they are with the card idle and with it working hard, like in a game.

        I guess power consumption would be something of interest, too, but is power saving features working in the current FOSS driver or FGLX? Or does it depend again on circumstances? For e.g., using latest Ubuntu Lucid and latest 10.4 fglrx or later impacts the feature?

        I should have included this question in my other post as it's more related to the topic.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by bridgman View Post
          Not sure I understand the question. Other than early support for new kernels (which isn't usually an issue on supported distros) there has only been one patch discussed, ie the "backclear" patch Felix provided to replace the old "104 no backfill" patch that most distros had been shipping for years (until early 2009).

          The binary drivers already have the features you mention, with the possible exception of XvMA (what is that ?).

          If you want to collect more useful experience I think you need to start building a more specific set of questions, ie "I'm planning to do *these* things on *this* distro with *this* other hardware". That way people will be able to give you more specific answers and you won't have to keep asking all the "but what if something goes wrong ?" questions that nobody can answer anyways.
          That's fair. I thought I read of other patches on here. Patches to fix various issues and such. I could be mistaken. My fault for not noting it or being specific.

          Okay, in the future, I'll give a specific outline of what distro I'd use and the application or exact feature I'd want. For starters, something simple: 1) If I were to use Ubuntu 10.04 (so Gnome desktop or possibly, LXDE) and latest FOSS driver and switching to latest FGLRX when required...to use MPlayer and play DivX/Xvid/MOV4/HD files.
          2) playing Youtube video - streaming video

          Potential Hardware: HD 4850 and HD 4770 (maybe no difference in experience???)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Panix View Post
            Sorry, one last part to the other post: I was wondering how temps in Linux. My current card, as I said, 7950 GT gets about 47 to 50 degrees, give or take, idle. I think it's around the same in Windows. I haven't really compared it, lately. I don't know if this is typical for this card but it seems acceptable.

            I'm wondering how a HD 4850 or HD 4770 would do for temps in Linux and whether there's a big change depending on whether you use FOSS driver or the FGLRX driver. So, 1) what are the temps? 2) what are the temps using a)foss driver; b)binary fglrx driver

            Also, of course, I am curious what they are with the card idle and with it working hard, like in a game.

            I guess power consumption would be something of interest, too, but is power saving features working in the current FOSS driver or FGLX? Or does it depend again on circumstances? For e.g., using latest Ubuntu Lucid and latest 10.4 fglrx or later impacts the feature?

            I should have included this question in my other post as it's more related to the topic.
            amd build the efficient hardware of all companies!

            5870 27 watt idle!
            4670 16-21 watt idle
            4350 5 watt idle 8 watt max!
            in my point of view a 5750 go green edition is the overall best mybe 10-15watt idle and 75watt TDP max!

            why do you care abaut power saving features@amd?

            a 4670 jump to '55' watt MAX if you use furmark....
            a 5750 jump to 75 watt @ furmark!
            a 4350 jumps to mybe 9 watt...@ furmark

            a normal nvidia GTX480 use 50-100 watt in idle!

            a AMD card use that in the MAX!

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            • #21
              @ Q

              Where is the power consumption of a highend ati card running with OSS driver?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Panix View Post
                If I were to use Ubuntu 10.04 (so Gnome desktop or possibly, LXDE) and latest FOSS driver and switching to latest FGLRX when required...to use MPlayer and play DivX/Xvid/MOV4/HD files.
                2) playing Youtube video - streaming video

                Potential Hardware: HD 4850 and HD 4770 (maybe no difference in experience???)
                In my experience for switching from radeon to fglrx only a logout is required as that will restart the xserver. For switching from fglrx to radeon a reboot is required, just logging out locks up the system.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by monraaf View Post
                  In my experience for switching from radeon to fglrx only a logout is required as that will restart the xserver.
                  Fake edit: But this may be more problematic with kms nowadays, have to try it sometime.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Kano View Post
                    @ Q

                    Where is the power consumption of a highend ati card running with OSS driver?
                    At this moment OSS power consuption will be high because there is no power management for OSS KMS.

                    When kernel 2.6.35-36 gets ready the power consuption of OSS will improve a lot!. Anyway fglrx has power management and power consuption is good.

                    Nvidia hardware is *fucked* this year, please read this, is a worth lecture.

                    http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/02/...and-unfixable/

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Kano View Post
                      @ Q

                      Where is the power consumption of a highend ati card running with OSS driver?
                      in my point of view mybe 100watt idle for the 5870 200watt @furmark

                      but thats not true because you can install kernel 2.6.34rc5+xorg-edgers

                      thats drop the power consuming to mybe 50 watt

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                      • #26
                        When you intend to use oss drivers a highend card is completely crap because you lose money due to more power consumption - when do you get it?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Kano View Post
                          When you intend to use oss drivers a highend card is completely crap because you lose money due to more power consumption - when do you get it?
                          really no one need to buy a highendcard for the opensource driver..

                          a passiv-cooled-5750-go-green-edition is fine!

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                          • #28
                            You only get modesetting with hd5 cards now, definitely no powersave mode!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Kano View Post
                              You only get modesetting with hd5 cards now, definitely no powersave mode!
                              you don't get the point if you buy the RIGHT card! you don't need any powersave mode!

                              thats because the MAX TDP is like the nvidia Idle mode (fermigtx480=100-watt-idle)!

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                              • #30
                                but thats stupid to run run the cards with oss driver, why should it run all the time in max speed mode? only complete idiots propose that!

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