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Ubuntu 9.10 Gets Unreleased Catalyst 9.10 Driver

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Schugy View Post
    There's no support for my RS690M.
    Support for GPUs based on the 3xx-5xx core, which includes RS690, was dropped from the Catalyst driver about 5 months ago and we shifted support focus to the open source drivers. Most distros ship with open source driver support built in and ready to go. What problems are you having ?
    Last edited by bridgman; 09-07-2009, 05:07 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by bridgman View Post
      Sure, except that's not what I said. I was just qroviding another side to the "everything is happening on Linux" comment. In the PC graphics market, a bit *more* is happening on Linux and I expect that growth to continue, but we do need to strike a balance across the whole PC graphics market.



      Sounds reasonable, but the "1%-ish" numbers I was talking about were for all PC graphics vendors, not just us.

      If the problem were our Linux support I would expect us to have a disproportionally low Linux market share compared with what we have on other OSes, and the Linux market would presumably do just fine without us. In reality, though, our market share in Linux seems to be quite close to our share in all other OSes.
      I agree with you, but I think you might put the linux gpu market alittle too low. Many of us don't have any choice of buying a computer without windows preinstalled. And that counts as a windows buy, doesn't it?

      Actually I think alot of the current linux users, have an oem window copy around somewhere. Even it is used or not.

      At the university we are ~40 % using linux on a computer with windows preinstalled. Every single of those computers will count as a windows gpu buy.

      (This is not bashing or anything like it. Just that I disagree with the ~1%-2% linux gpu market)

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      • #33
        Originally posted by tball View Post
        I agree with you, but I think you might put the linux gpu market alittle too low. Many of us don't have any choice of buying a computer without windows preinstalled. And that counts as a windows buy, doesn't it?

        Actually I think alot of the current linux users, have an oem window copy around somewhere. Even it is used or not.
        If the system was purchased with Windows but is being used with Linux we would count that as a Linux system, not Windows. OEM hardware mfgs would probably treat it as Windows buy, however, which is one contributor to the chicken-and-egg problem with Linux pre-installs.

        Originally posted by tball View Post
        At the university we are ~40 % using linux on a computer with windows preinstalled. Every single of those computers will count as a windows gpu buy.

        (This is not bashing or anything like it. Just that I disagree with the ~1%-2% linux gpu market)
        Again, we would count your uni systems as Linux, not Windows. You can see how hard it is to get good numbers though. I can find numbers which convincingly argue for anything between 0.1% and nearly 20%, although the more credible ones tend to be somewhere in the middle.

        Part of the problem is that Linux usage is "lumpy" - everyone you know uses Linux, most of the people I know use Linux, but if you start taking really random samples the numbers aren't so high. I did an informal survey of the people on my parent's street -- not one person on the street used Linux or knew anyone who did.

        That doesn't prove anything, it just means that one of the priorities for the industry is getting some better market penetration numbers.

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        • #34
          True, real Windows sales would probably be lower than they nowadays are if all machines wouldn't be bundled with Windows by default but I doubt that'd be worth more than a few, anyway less than ten, percent error marginal.
          Edit: Oh, wait, am I talking about the wrong thing? Just took a quick look at the last few posts.
          Last edited by nanonyme; 09-07-2009, 05:31 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by bridgman View Post
            If the system was purchased with Windows but is being used with Linux we would count that as a Linux system, not Windows. OEM hardware mfgs would probably treat it as Windows buy, however, which is one contributor to the chicken-and-egg problem with Linux pre-installs.
            Fair enough. Didn't know that :-) But if the OEM mfgs don't give you the information about a linux gpu buy. Who does?

            Originally posted by bridgman
            ......

            That doesn't prove anything, it just means that one of the priorities for the industry is getting some better market penetration numbers.
            Totally agree. I didn't took the ~40% as normal, but far from. I just wanted to make a point, that actually none of us in my country have the choice of buying a computer without windows. Well thats not quite true, we can a buy a computer without windows from 1 computer company, but they tend to suck unfortunately.

            Not even dell wants to sell their computer without windows overhere :S

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            • #36
              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
              Support for GPUs based on the 3xx-5xx core, which includes RS690, was dropped from the Catalyst driver about 5 months ago and we shifted support focus to the open source drivers. Most distros ship with open source driver support built in and ready to go. What problems are you having ?
              I'm unable to play games like Ankh, Ankh2 or Jack Keane with it. I can only watch the intro. Seems like open 3D drivers aren't yet feature complete. In my old Desktop PCs I have a GeForce2MX (bought in 2001!) and a 7600GT and both work with legacy drivers.

              With the free drivers I can't even play foobillard without graphics errors and poor performance.

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              • #37
                Iirc there actually were bugs in foobillard that cause some graphics errors. (as in, wrong assumptions about some parts of OpenGL implementation)

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by nanonyme View Post
                  Iirc there actually were bugs in foobillard that cause some graphics errors. (as in, wrong assumptions about some parts of OpenGL implementation)
                  Right, foobilliard was using some OpenGL feature that most old drivers just passed along to another nearly equivalent one which worked the way they thought it should. But when the newer drivers implemented the feature they were using foobilliard broke because the calls were no longer getting passed to the function they should have been calling all along. The explanation came from Keith Packard about the Intel drivers having the same problem.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    If the system was purchased with Windows but is being used with Linux we would count that as a Linux system, not Windows. OEM hardware mfgs would probably treat it as Windows buy, however, which is one contributor to the chicken-and-egg problem with Linux pre-installs.



                    Again, we would count your uni systems as Linux, not Windows. You can see how hard it is to get good numbers though. I can find numbers which convincingly argue for anything between 0.1% and nearly 20%, although the more credible ones tend to be somewhere in the middle.

                    Part of the problem is that Linux usage is "lumpy" - everyone you know uses Linux, most of the people I know use Linux, but if you start taking really random samples the numbers aren't so high. I did an informal survey of the people on my parent's street -- not one person on the street used Linux or knew anyone who did.

                    That doesn't prove anything, it just means that one of the priorities for the industry is getting some better market penetration numbers.
                    All these arguments from brigdman falls when you speak of nVIDIA, they have great Linux support even though it is not the market leader. Enough Said.

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                    • #40
                      Sorry Kensai, I don't get the connection. We were talking about market share and how to measure it. How are my "arguments" there failing ?

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Schugy View Post
                        I'm unable to play games like Ankh, Ankh2 or Jack Keane with it. I can only watch the intro. Seems like open 3D drivers aren't yet feature complete. In my old Desktop PCs I have a GeForce2MX (bought in 2001!) and a 7600GT and both work with legacy drivers.

                        With the free drivers I can't even play foobillard without graphics errors and poor performance.
                        you also can setup an old ubuntu 8.10 for an exampel or 8.04lts and use the 9-3 catalyst.

                        no computer-company on earth supports there products on full live time period!

                        you can't get linux drivers for an C64-VGA Sue commodore if you wana be cool!

                        AMD supports your hardware 5years or longer!

                        why not buy an new one? or try to help make the opensource driver better!

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                          Sorry Kensai, I don't get the connection. We were talking about market share and how to measure it. How are my "arguments" there failing ?
                          'Your argument failing because linux has a low market share and nvidia brings VDPAU to support HD-viedeo acceleration on linux.

                          because your argument are only correct if Nvdia do not support HD-viedeo-Acceleration on Linux because of the low market share.

                          the low-market-share argument is complete bullshit to block UVD2 on the closed source Catalyst driver.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                            the low-market-share argument is complete bullshit to block UVD2 on the closed source Catalyst driver.
                            I'm pretty confused by the lack of UVD2. Bridgman has stated that several commercial partners are using it under Linux, and yet it's nowhere to be seen on the consumer side. The only reason I can think for this to happen is some sort of legal process, but I can't imagine why they wouldn't be able to put out a feature in their binary driver except under NDA. Is there concern that UVD2 is just too easy to reverse engineer? And in that case, are there plans to fix this in the future by further obfuscating it somehow?

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                            • #44
                              The "protection" has been already hacked, cracked, reverse engineered, broken, p0wnt, whatever. It's just that AMD still isn't allowed to publish specs about it.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                                'Your argument failing because linux has a low market share and nvidia brings VDPAU to support HD-viedeo acceleration on linux.

                                because your argument are only correct if Nvdia do not support HD-viedeo-Acceleration on Linux because of the low market share.

                                the low-market-share argument is complete bullshit to block UVD2 on the closed source Catalyst driver.
                                I don't believe I have *ever* said or implied that our support relative to our competitors had anything to do with market share. What I *have* said multiple times is that other vendors started supporting consumer users before we did, and that we are catching up but still have some work to do.

                                The context of the market share discussion was my response to another Threedays' comment that "Every Thing Is Happening On Linux".
                                Last edited by bridgman; 09-08-2009, 07:29 PM.

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