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AMD Dropping R300-R500 Support In Catalyst Driver

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  • #76
    Ok, now I can finally say goodbye to AMD after this move.

    Not only NVIDIA beats you 100 times, they even keep a legacy driver updated. This is enough. I'm sick of AMD and their shit.

    If you use Linux, use NVIDIA cards.
    I'm already putting my ATI 2600XT card on ebay even though AMD Catalyst shit driver supports it. I have enough of this cause I even own a 9600XT card. You wanna fool me? Fine, I won't give you my money anymore.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by drag View Post
      Actually I would not think it's coding what is needed (well that is needed, but end users can't typically code). Anyways most people do not have the ability to do that.

      What is needed from most people is going to be feedback.

      For example:

      Say you have a video card that freezes when you try to do 3D. Who is going to help you fix it if you sit on your hands and don't file reports or do anything about it?

      NOBODY.

      NOBODY IS GOING TO FIX ANYTHING IF THEY ARE UNAWARE OF IT.


      ---------------------------------


      What is needed is the ability for people to run lots of tests on different hardware with the same exact software setup. So that developers can know easier which hardware is the problem and stuff like that.

      They don't even need to be particularly good bug reports. Numbers make up for it.

      So say you get 300 bug reports from different people. They are shitty bug reports, but you know the user and the hardware. Well if 200 of those people are having problems with the same chipset on their cards... then that helps to narrow down the problem significantly, right?


      SOOOOO.....

      What I am getting at is this:

      Is there any Live Linux distribution out there right now for testing video hardware?

      I want a Live Linux cdrom that is built with the latest and greatest open source drivers and comes with a bunch of benchmarking and hardware testing tools installed. So that a individual can download the image, drop it on a USB key or on a CDROM and then just engage in a bunch of testing.

      Something quick and easy that does not require a bunch of Linux skills or require installing software over a existing system. Something even a typical Windows user can handle.


      If that does not exist then I want to make one. I want to take Phoronix's benchmark tools and make a live CD/USB Key with the latest and greatest X Windows and OpenGL drivers.
      That wouldn't be a bad idea. I'm all for testing drivers (which I already do), but having to build them in order to run the latest code can be a pain. If users can get a hold of a small image that is constantly updated with the major changes in open source drivers, I think it would provide greater incentive for people to become sort of beta testers for the drivers. After all, people want functional drivers (I would hope).

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by bulletxt View Post
        Ok, now I can finally say goodbye to AMD after this move.

        Not only NVIDIA beats you 100 times, they even keep a legacy driver updated. This is enough. I'm sick of AMD and their shit.

        If you use Linux, use NVIDIA cards.
        I'm already putting my ATI 2600XT card on ebay even though AMD Catalyst shit driver supports it. I have enough of this cause I even own a 9600XT card. You wanna fool me? Fine, I won't give you my money anymore.
        good bye and good luck. You will be angry again when others enjoy kms and you are stuck with nvidia.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by energyman View Post
          good bye and good luck. You will be angry again when others enjoy kms and you are stuck with nvidia.
          nah. He'll be angry when he finds out that Nvidia's drivers have more bugs than a Louisiana swamp.

          Comment


          • #80
            the decision is obvious
            if you want to HOPE for a future of better drivers, improved FOSS, then buy ATI

            if you just want stuff to work NOW, buy nvidia

            I know what I want, and it's in the present.

            seriously, who cares about KMS, it happens on bootup, that's it

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by energyman View Post
              good bye and good luck. You will be angry again when others enjoy kms and you are stuck with nvidia.
              Lol if you really believe AMD will become the leader in GPU Linux market then fine, you're free to believe it.

              If you look at history (including today), there is not even 1 reason to believe it considering NVIDIA continuous work. There is a reason if NVIDIA is the leader in the Linux market since year 2001. But no, you guys are too blind to listening at AMD fairy tales.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by energyman View Post
                it doesn't 'loose support' The old drivers will continue to work. Or will the windows driver stop working with the release of 9.5? No! Nobody forces you to update the drivers. And with win7 your hardware is unsupported anyway - so what are you complaining about?
                What makes you say my hardware is unsupported? I've got equipment which can run vista which is far more resource intensive than Win7. The only problem will be the video card. You just can't expect one to go and buy a new one after 2 years of just spending more than $500 on one can you?

                The current drives do not work - they never had under linux, so they will not continue to work - where is my working video overlay, where is working rotation, where is working multi-monitor and above all where is the stability. So many bugs with the later r500 models (i.e. what I have) that its not even funny. Coincidentally, 9.2 borked and I had no video output on my system. I had to go back to 9.1.

                I cannot and will not remain with an old os - and why should I. It DOES LOOSE SUPPORT because newer Xorg and Kernel upgrades will bork the driver. Maybe you can't seem to understand that some of us need the new features that come out - even be it just stabilized support for other hardware in later releases of the kernel.

                Originally posted by energyman View Post
                And linux? Well - the opensource activities happened for a reason. You want better opensource drivers? Then sit down on your ass and start coding.
                Why should I? I paid good money for a card and I expect the company who got my $$$ to support the product they sold me. I've got far more important things to do than to screw around with writing my own drivers.

                I've been hearing about the promise of opensource drivers for too long. That carrot-on-a-stick routine is way too tiring now. Already waiting 2 years and now told to wait even more for a working driver is not acceptable business practice IMO.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by russofris View Post
                  Someone may wish to explain to AMD that x1000 is not a legacy architecture. Products are being released with this tech "today"
                  Dead on! I know the laptop that I have with the X1700 video card continued to be on sale in the mainstream until less than a year ago. And the video card is not upgradeable. After spending that much money on it, you can't just throw it out because of some stupid driver issue with a video card and spend a few g's again. That would be insane especially in this crappy economic climate..

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Big Time for opensource Good Job! and 8.591 cat rockstable !

                    on my system the Beta of the Catalyst 9-3 ( 8.591) goes Rockstable!

                    :~$ infobash -v3
                    Host/Kernel/OS "ass" running Linux 2.6.28-1-686-bigmem i686 [ sidux 2008-04 Πόντος - kde-lite - (200812222321) ]
                    CPU Info (1) AMD Engineering Sample 1024 KB cache flags( sse3 nx lm svm
                    Videocard ATI RV710 [Radeon HD 4350] X.Org 1.4.2 [ 1920x1200@60.0hz ]
                    Network cards 2x Broadcom NetXtreme BCM5754 Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express
                    Processes 143 | Uptime 6:24 | Memory 423.6/8116.5MB | HDD SAMSUNG SP2014N,ATA SAMSUNG HD103UJ Size 1200GB (93%used) | GLX Renderer ATI Radeon HD 4350 | GLX Version 2.1.8543 Release | Client Shell | Infobash v3.05

                    my othe PC with an R300 aka X800 Runs well to! for now and in the future Opensource will rock da house

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by pawstar View Post
                      What makes you say my hardware is unsupported? I've got equipment which can run vista which is far more resource intensive than Win7. The only problem will be the video card. You just can't expect one to go and buy a new one after 2 years of just spending more than $500 on one can you?
                      Microsoft usually maintains ABI compatibility across at least a couple of generations of OS (ie several years). Vista can normally work with XP video drivers, for example. Linux changes the API and ABI exposed to binary drivers with almost every new kernel release.

                      Originally posted by pawstar View Post
                      The current drives do not work - they never had under linux, so they will not continue to work - where is my working video overlay, where is working rotation, where is working multi-monitor and above all where is the stability. So many bugs with the later r500 models (i.e. what I have) that its not even funny. Coincidentally, 9.2 borked and I had no video output on my system. I had to go back to 9.1.
                      The 5xx generation of GPUs don't have the kind of video overlay you remember from earlier hardware. It's not a question of driver support.

                      Rotation and multi-monitor should both be supported in the open drivers today.

                      My impression was that stability with the open drivers was very good today; have you tried them recently ?

                      Originally posted by pawstar View Post
                      I cannot and will not remain with an old os - and why should I. It DOES LOOSE SUPPORT because newer Xorg and Kernel upgrades will bork the driver. Maybe you can't seem to understand that some of us need the new features that come out - even be it just stabilized support for other hardware in later releases of the kernel.
                      Again, the open drivers not only evolve with the new distros but they are often used to create the new features you are looking for.

                      Originally posted by pawstar View Post
                      I've been hearing about the promise of opensource drivers for too long. That carrot-on-a-stick routine is way too tiring now. Already waiting 2 years and now told to wait even more for a working driver is not acceptable business practice IMO.
                      Just curious, what are you waiting for from the open drivers ? AFAIK for your card (I'm guessing high end 5xx ?) they have caught up with fglrx in every area except gaming performance already.

                      Originally posted by pawstar View Post
                      Dead on! I know the laptop that I have with the X1700 video card continued to be on sale in the mainstream until less than a year ago. And the video card is not upgradeable. After spending that much money on it, you can't just throw it out because of some stupid driver issue with a video card and spend a few g's again. That would be insane especially in this crappy economic climate..
                      I don't think anyone is saying "throw the card out", are we ? We're just saying "from this point on we're going to be delivering support via the open source drivers".

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by bulletxt View Post
                        There is a reason if NVIDIA is the leader in the Linux market since year 2001.
                        The same reason Windows XP is the leader in the OS market since 2001 - inertia. nVidia put out a working driver at a time when nothing else worked.

                        Also I should point out here that I'm using an ATi card from that era with more effects than Vista can crap out, whereas I've got an almost equal spec nVidia card gathering dust in a drawer, because they added that infamous black window bug then dropped support days later. Funny how compiz ran fine on it at one point, but that's forced obsolescence for you.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Well, this is an interesting coincidence
                          I have just switched to the open source radeon driver on my laptop(ubuntu 8.10, asus f3jr, mobility radeon x2300 = RV535(?)).
                          I switched because of stability problems with the catalyst driver(fullscreen video in through xv in compiz would lead to hard freeze).
                          This are my impressions so far:
                          +its very stable, suspend works, hibernation thorough s2disk too, everything while running compiz
                          +video is without ANY flickering in compiz, xv has good antitearing support and 720p video is watchable
                          -performance as measured by glxgears is roughly cut in half in comparison to the catylst driver(1100 vs 2000+) but the number is the same with and without compiz(on the catalyst, it was always lower with compiz)
                          -some 3D aps dont work
                          -problems with some aplications that run 3D in fullscreen in compiz,
                          looks like if scaling is not implemented (ap. wants to run 800*600 in fullscreen but it appears on a black screen in a box) and sometimes things *behind* a fullscreen aplication (gnome resource monitor etc.) flicker through,it can be solved by running the aplication in a window or without compiz (looks like without compiz the scaling works ok)
                          -the power management is probably not working, but I have not noticed any bigger difference, maybe it wast working before at all
                          -there is no setup utility, you can get info from xorg.log and settings go as usual to xorg.conf when neaded
                          -some minor corruption from timer to time but nothing showstopping

                          I have tried the radeonhd driver too but I got just 300fps in glxgears, maybe I forgot to add some options to xorg.conf ?

                          All in all I am quite pleased. I finally managed to achieve my main obejective, to have:
                          *stability
                          *suspend,hibernation
                          *good video playback
                          *compiz
                          all at the same time.
                          I would say that the open source radeon driver is not bad at all!
                          There are Ubuntu packages with radeon 1.6.11 and radeonhd 1.24 available so you can try the newest oss drivers yourselve.
                          https://launchpad.net/~tormodvolden/+archive/ppa
                          These packages are unofficial and HIGHLY experimental, so be carefull
                          (Text console boot options and ssh access may come in handy

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by remm View Post
                            Obviously, these people don't know what they are talking about ...

                            More seriously, if you are interested in Linux and open source, then you should buy your hardware thinking about using it with open source drivers. Otherwise, there's really no point, you could use Windows with the same open source applications that you use on Linux.
                            There are hundreds more reasons why I use Linux instead windowses, or macoses.

                            The only use of the blobs are for waiting for open drivers to get there when the hardware is new.
                            Not exactly, but I usually choose Open Drivers instead of closed blobs.

                            I expect Larabee will kill NV and AMD in the Linux market
                            What's Larabee?

                            @Ant P

                            The same reason Windows XP is the leader in the OS market since 2001
                            What reason? Linux worked better for me those times and it works far better for me right now. The reason is ms monopoly.

                            @SyXbiT

                            seriously, who cares about KMS, it happens on bootup, that's it
                            It's much more.
                            Last edited by kraftman; 03-05-2009, 04:17 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by energyman View Post
                              Stormking - you want drivers? Great - sit down and start coding! The documentation is there. AMD/ATI put everything on the table you need to improve the FOSS drivers. I am expecting you sending patches upstream soon.
                              Why would I? I already paid ATI to do that for me.

                              PS: Calling your customers - who just want what they paid for - "whiners", clearly is a statement of its own.
                              Last edited by Stormking; 03-05-2009, 05:54 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Melf View Post
                                mobility radeon x2300 = RV535(?)).

                                I have tried the radeonhd driver too but I got just 300fps in glxgears, maybe I forgot to add some options to xorg.conf ?
                                AFAIK the X2300 is RV550, more like an RV515 with an early version of UVD.

                                The radeon driver turns DRI on by default but radeonhd defaults to turning it off.

                                If you add :

                                Option "DRI"

                                to the Device section of xorg.conf that should give you the same performance in radeonhd.

                                EDIT - agd5f just mentioned in IRC that while radeonhd and radeon both have tear-free Xv code for 6xx/7xx, radeonhd probably doesn't have tear-free for 5xx yet.
                                Last edited by bridgman; 03-05-2009, 04:59 PM.

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