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AMD Dropping R300-R500 Support In Catalyst Driver

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  • Have you tried scrolling in Firefox?

    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
    I think the radeon driver (xf86-video-ati) already has tear-free support for 5xx-family parts.
    Take a large page, like this talkback. Use the scroll-wheel on your mouse to scroll the page up and down quickly. I would not call that a "tear-free" experience with my Radeon 9550. (At least it's not slow, though.)

    Comment


    • Sorry, I thought we were talking about tear-free video (which is enabled by default). Tear-free EXA is disabled by default but there is an option to enable it.

      Addressing things like 2D accel tearing in the driver is really only a workaround, though, until the overall X stack gets improved. Sync-to-vblank needs to happen in the compositor, with double- or triple-buffering so that the app can draw without being slowed down. AFAIK Compiz doesn't work that way today, not sure about other compositors.
      Last edited by bridgman; 03-08-2009, 11:40 AM.

      Comment


      • Oh. Well. Or not so well.

        It's kinda sad to see the X1250 IGP listed as "legacy" already. Humm. I mean there are the free drivers which is a good thing to catch up all the people with older cards that are dropping off their chairs being presented that message.
        But still the free drivers lack a lot of functionality and also don't support every card.
        I mean I'd rather see the fglrx living some time longer and implementing fixes etc. and supporting newer Kernels / xorg than just having nothing to work with and being damned to be stuck with a certain version of kernel and X.
        Maybe ATI should concentrate on bringing fewer models to the market but rather keeping up with driver lifetime and quality. All those different HW makes absolutely no sense when it is not correctly/ not at all supported by the SW side.

        I'm glad I don't have to fear for my Radeon HD 3870 but I'm still kinda scared.

        But to all those writing that they'll buy nv instead: Huh, do you think it's any different with Nvidia? And nv doesn't even support free drivers!
        My old Geforce2 and 3 are legacy and nearly not supported anymore for years now. At least there are specs for the ATI-AMD ones so it's possible to do something about it at all.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Adarion View Post
          My old Geforce2 and 3 are legacy and nearly not supported anymore for years now. At least there are specs for the ATI-AMD ones so it's possible to do something about it at all.
          Legacy does not mean unsupported for nvidia. There have been plenty of updates for your cards and are still presently being updated.

          http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=122606
          Last edited by deanjo; 03-08-2009, 01:00 PM.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Adarion View Post
            But still the free drivers lack a lot of functionality and also don't support every card.
            The only contentions thing here is that we are planning to maintain legacy support with the open drivers rather than with fglrx, since we feel that the open drivers are more likely to make for happy consumer users.

            Other than the level of OpenGL support (which is being worked on now), and tvout (which deanjo mentioned yesterday), are there other areas where you see the open drivers missing functionality relative to fglrx.

            If you see a card or GPU that isn`t supported let us know -- we don`t always know about every card on the market.

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            • Before leaving behind support for those cards, can you please update what Xorg.conf options are fully/partially/not supported by the binary driver? It's kind of a dark science to write a decent xorg.conf for an Ati Radeon card.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                Legacy does not mean unsupported for nvidia. There have been plenty of updates for your cards and are still presently being updated.

                http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=122606
                It's worth to notice AMD provide MUCH greater support for r500 cards. OS driver is in some cases far better than fglrx and you don't have to install closed blobs. Dropping support for R300-R500 cards is great news, because they'll focus on OS drivers which are great and will grow in quality faster now.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by kraftman View Post
                  It's worth to notice AMD provide MUCH greater support for r500 cards. OS driver is in some cases far better than fglrx and you don't have to install closed blobs. Dropping support for R300-R500 cards is great news, because they'll focus on OS drivers which are great and will grow in quality faster now.
                  Yes Great for the opensource world :-)

                  but the fglrx has r300 parts in it in fakt!

                  Comment


                  • Tear-free, in any sense.

                    Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                    Sorry, I thought we were talking about tear-free video (which is enabled by default). Tear-free EXA is disabled by default but there is an option to enable it.
                    Yes, I have noticed the Open-Source "tear-free" XVideo support and it's fine. However, enabling EXAVsync makes my X-server non-responsive with the Radeon 9550 in my desktop.

                    But it's the sudden loss of OpenGL support for R500 chips from fglrx that really annoys me. Mesa's 3D support simply isn't good enough to play World of Warcraft any more, ever since the release of "Wrath of the Lich King". Nor is the Gallium code going to be ready to replace it by the end of April. So a rather expensive and not particularly old laptop will probably now be gathering dust until it is...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by chrisr View Post
                      Yes, I have noticed the Open-Source "tear-free" XVideo support and it's fine. However, enabling EXAVsync makes my X-server non-responsive with the Radeon 9550 in my desktop.
                      Yeah, syncing the acceleration calls isn't real efficient, but until we get a better compositing stack that does the tear-free stuff via page flipping I *think* that's the best that can be done in the driver alone.

                      Have you ever played with any of the XRender based compositors ? I'm thinking that might be the best approach for tear-free on older hardware.

                      Originally posted by chrisr View Post
                      But it's the sudden loss of OpenGL support for R500 chips from fglrx that really annoys me. Mesa's 3D support simply isn't good enough to play World of Warcraft any more, ever since the release of "Wrath of the Lich King". Nor is the Gallium code going to be ready to replace it by the end of April. So a rather expensive and not particularly old laptop will probably now be gathering dust until it is...
                      So here's what I don't understand. We're not sending kill codes out to your systems or anything, so if the driver works today then it's going to work in April as well. None of the supported distros do package updates of kernel or X server so AFAIK the system should just keep running unless you decide that you absolutely have to upgrade the OS to a new distro release.

                      Even if we kept fglrx alive for 3xx-5xx in the legacy branch we would still be looking at quarterly-ish updates, so it would be more like June-ish until you could upgrade anyways, and by that time a lot of the in-flight open source work should be starting to show up in a useable form. I understand being upset that you can't upgrade to a new distro as quickly as you might like but I'm still having trouble understanding the "gathering dust" part...
                      Last edited by bridgman; 03-08-2009, 08:46 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                        Yeah, syncing the acceleration calls isn't real efficient, but until we get a better compositing stack that does the tear-free stuff via page flipping I *think* that's the best that can be done in the driver alone.

                        Have you ever played with any of the XRender based compositors ? I'm thinking that might be the best approach for tear-free on older hardware.



                        So here's what I don't understand. We're not sending kill codes out to your systems or anything, so if the driver works today then it's going to work in April as well. None of the supported distros do package updates of kernel or X server so AFAIK the system should just keep running unless you decide that you absolutely have to upgrade the OS to a new distro release.

                        Even if we kept fglrx alive for 3xx-5xx in the legacy branch we would still be looking at quarterly-ish updates, so it would be more like June-ish until you could upgrade anyways, and by that time a lot of the in-flight open source work should be starting to show up in a useable form. I understand being upset that you can't upgrade to a new distro as quickly as you might like but I'm still having trouble understanding the "gathering dust" part...
                        Because some people dont just use their computer for X set of things, 100% locked. Some people might have changing needs, and if suddenly they cant just do pretty much everything possible, the computer is useless to them.. allthough i'd hardly call world of warcraft something like that.. besides, considering fglrx's current quality, this is hardly a loss of significance.

                        i'd say this choice makes sense, especially if AMD as result devotes just a tad more resources towards the free drivers.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Redeeman View Post
                          Because some people dont just use their computer for X set of things, 100% locked. Some people might have changing needs, and if suddenly they cant just do pretty much everything possible, the computer is useless to them.. allthough i'd hardly call world of warcraft something like that.. besides, considering fglrx's current quality, this is hardly a loss of significance.

                          i'd say this choice makes sense, especially if AMD as result devotes just a tad more resources towards the free drivers.
                          in fakt for wine and new games you need OpenGL3!

                          Buy a new cheap cart like the HD-4350 only 20!

                          R500 has only OpenGL2.1 and NO nvidia exstansions.. WINE only supports DX8 on OpenGL2 carts!

                          for DX9 and higher you need openGL3!

                          not realy for the newer GSGL language 1,4 but for the other new exstansions!

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                          • so what? ou can install any other distro. You might not be able to update it, but you don't really loose anything. Everything that works NOW will continue to work. You NEED a new version of some software - well, confiugure&&make&&make install works great - if you don't forget to install the abomination called '-dev packets'.

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                            • It's the kernel.

                              Originally posted by bridgman View Post
                              So here's what I don't understand. We're not sending kill codes out to your systems or anything, so if the driver works today then it's going to work in April as well.
                              Except that there's no guarantee that fglrx will compile against the 2.6.29+ kernels. In fact, I'm not even sure if it will compile against a 2.6.28 kernel!

                              None of the supported distros do package updates of kernel or X server so AFAIK the system should just keep running unless you decide that you absolutely have to upgrade the OS to a new distro release.
                              I can believe that for the X server, but that sounds like nonsense for the kernel. There's a small matter of bug and security fixes which are released at random intervals. (And which my distro does fix.) So basically either my laptop gets stuck with the last kernel that is still compatible with fglrx, along with all that kernel's known bugs, or I upgrade and lose OpenGL support.

                              Comment


                              • it does compile against 2.6.28. And nobody forces you to update to 2.6.29.

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