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AMD Launches The A10-7800, The 65 Watt Kaveri

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  • AMD Launches The A10-7800, The 65 Watt Kaveri

    Phoronix: AMD Launches The A10-7800, The 65 Watt Kaveri

    AMD this morning has officially announced the A10-7800, the 65 Watt version of their "Kaveri" APU that's a follow-up launch to the A10-7850K that launched earlier in the year...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTc1MzE

  • #2
    1. Is Kaveri open source ready by now?
    2. HSA?
    3. can a custom/optimised built kernel exceed the performance of win?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by jakubo View Post
      1. Is Kaveri open source ready by now?
      2. HSA?
      3. can a custom/optimised built kernel exceed the performance of win?
      1. Yes, since a long time
      2. patches to support HSA have been recently proposed by AMD, they are still waiting to be integrated in the linux kernel
      3. ? Don't understand what you really want to know

      Comment


      • #4
        Michael, when benchmarking the CPU, please throw - mtune=generic into the ring, so that we see how it performs on stock distributions.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ziple View Post
          1. Yes, since a long time
          2. patches to support HSA have been recently proposed by AMD, they are still waiting to be integrated in the linux kernel
          3. ? Don't understand what you really want to know
          @3. if linux can be much faster on this rather highly specialised piece of hardware.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jakubo View Post
            @3. if linux can be much faster on this rather highly specialised piece of hardware.
            i mean especially on opencl, and HSA tasks. Or when possible general everyday benchmarks when every kernel or compile tweak is activated.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jakubo View Post
              @3. if linux can be much faster on this rather highly specialised piece of hardware.
              I wouldn't really call this piece of hardware highly specialized, its just an APU like any before it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ericg View Post
                I wouldn't really call this piece of hardware highly specialized, its just an APU like any before it.
                generally speaking it has quite somecompute power via its GPU which seems to lack bandwidth and a low performing CPU. Maximum performance is not reached for simple FP operations is it? but for some graphic or OpenCL/HSA stuff. Thats what id call it specialized. At least for the software that exists to this point and is unable to get a hold of the power it could offer. Youd need specially written software. thats why i call it specialised.
                (i wouldnt if some Gallium state tracker was able to make its graphic's part's CU's power available for completely general purpose so that (almost) every program that uses the cpu could run on the GPU instead. Or maybe someone will make a framework for such optimisation someday)

                long story short: if you wanted a generally good system youd go with an Intel CPU and a discrete Nvidia graphics card (on linux)
                AMD is, as a matter of fact, (in) a niche and for lovers
                ... and budged if you do not rely on fast ram... whats a cheap CPU for when you need f***ing expensive ram withought still exceeding intel

                And yes i am very much interested in AMD to succeed and bring some new stuff. They need to really get some kind of feature and make it common and i think HSA is a good approach but with the software lacking so much behind it very much reminds me of the introducion of 64bits when it took years to be somewhat fully used. There are so many people out there craving for some new toys especially in the linux world. They could really be the ones giving hardware to universities for some masters thesis. given they can or do (afford to) open up documentation...
                i mean look at raspberry pi. They could do the same if not better. or if you want look at tesla cars. AMD cannot win on a closed market (or maybe with the before mentioned inspiration and a HUGE(!!!) investition as a final trump card... which will not happen due to investors). and the longer they wait the worse it gets. i mean if it goes on like this they may have to ask Intel to manufacture chips for them when GF and TSMC cannot fill their needs...

                Comment


                • #9
                  hm

                  i need to say the single core performance is a mess, the gpu os not bad, but the cpu....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jakubo View Post
                    generally speaking it has quite somecompute power via its GPU which seems to lack bandwidth and a low performing CPU. Maximum performance is not reached for simple FP operations is it? but for some graphic or OpenCL/HSA stuff. Thats what id call it specialized. At least for the software that exists to this point and is unable to get a hold of the power it could offer. Youd need specially written software. thats why i call it specialised.
                    (i wouldnt if some Gallium state tracker was able to make its graphic's part's CU's power available for completely general purpose so that (almost) every program that uses the cpu could run on the GPU instead. Or maybe someone will make a framework for such optimisation someday)

                    long story short: if you wanted a generally good system youd go with an Intel CPU and a discrete Nvidia graphics card (on linux)
                    AMD is, as a matter of fact, (in) a niche and for lovers
                    ... and budged if you do not rely on fast ram... whats a cheap CPU for when you need f***ing expensive ram withought still exceeding intel

                    And yes i am very much interested in AMD to succeed and bring some new stuff. They need to really get some kind of feature and make it common and i think HSA is a good approach but with the software lacking so much behind it very much reminds me of the introducion of 64bits when it took years to be somewhat fully used. There are so many people out there craving for some new toys especially in the linux world. They could really be the ones giving hardware to universities for some masters thesis. given they can or do (afford to) open up documentation...
                    i mean look at raspberry pi. They could do the same if not better. or if you want look at tesla cars. AMD cannot win on a closed market (or maybe with the before mentioned inspiration and a HUGE(!!!) investition as a final trump card... which will not happen due to investors). and the longer they wait the worse it gets. i mean if it goes on like this they may have to ask Intel to manufacture chips for them when GF and TSMC cannot fill their needs...
                    I don't really know HSA is going to be used in real world so I can't tell you if it is going to become a key feature everyone will want to have.
                    On the paper it is really interesting though, and lots of applications could benefit from it I guess: from video decoding to scientific computing I think.

                    I would not be so negative about the usefulness of recent AMD processors: besides from being really damn cheap, they perform quite well with heavy threaded applications (compared to their single core performance) for their price. They also include a fully featured GPU that can help for computing tasks.
                    I am a scientist doing lots of computations (I develop the software I use), and for my needs AMD products are more than good enough. If I need serious computing power, I use the computer grid in my facility... It depends on the needs of each one.

                    As I see it: Intel has been really good at marketing and lots of people just know Intel, so they buy Intel; The ones who knows AMD buy Intel procs because they think that it will run faster. Lots of people who use their computer only for emails and browsing the internet would not see the difference between an AMD proc and an Intel one...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If you're into gaming you will put the most money into a discrete gpu, like my son who uses an i3 with a R9 290 = maximum gaming performance per dollar. Kaveri wouldn't do him any good.

                      For myself, as a Linux/Android hacker, I recently upgraded my home server/Linux workstation with a i5 4570S which also has 65W TDP. But is very very much faster than Kaveri, and actually not much more expensive. And it was easily obtainable. I use a discrete Nvidia card, meaning gaming performance is much better than Kaveri too. Kaveri wouldn't do me any good.

                      For htpc I always used outdated PC stuff I don't use anymore, those various components inside a box has at all times played back 1080P movies flawlessly, I wouldn't put any money into another box.

                      I'm sure there is someone out there who finds Kaveri intriguing, like for the so-not-here-yet heterogenous computing, but I see it mostly as a laptop cpu and maybe somewhat interesting for lower TDP:s than 45/65W. Talking about laptops I recently bought a laptop for my daughter, it uses a Haswell i7 ULV which performs quite well with Windows 8.1, but it is only 15W TDP. Hard to beat for Kaveri, and it uses a Nvidia gpu so gaming is better too.

                      AMD really needs to have higher single threaded performance cores to be an alternative that doesn't compromise real world performance, otherwise most people will do like me and end up buying Intel. Total platform cost doesn't differ much even if the cpu is a few dollars cheaper. And in the ultra portable world like phones and tablets ARM already rules, being a headache even for Intel, AMD isn't even near a tablet design win afaik .... so, very cheap laptops could be the thing for Kaveri, possibly ...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by xeizo View Post
                        If you're into gaming you will put the most money into a discrete gpu, like my son who uses an i3 with a R9 290 = maximum gaming performance per dollar. Kaveri wouldn't do him any good.

                        For myself, as a Linux/Android hacker, I recently upgraded my home server/Linux workstation with a i5 4570S which also has 65W TDP. But is very very much faster than Kaveri, and actually not much more expensive. And it was easily obtainable. I use a discrete Nvidia card, meaning gaming performance is much better than Kaveri too. Kaveri wouldn't do me any good.

                        For htpc I always used outdated PC stuff I don't use anymore, those various components inside a box has at all times played back 1080P movies flawlessly, I wouldn't put any money into another box.

                        I'm sure there is someone out there who finds Kaveri intriguing, like for the so-not-here-yet heterogenous computing, but I see it mostly as a laptop cpu and maybe somewhat interesting for lower TDP:s than 45/65W. Talking about laptops I recently bought a laptop for my daughter, it uses a Haswell i7 ULV which performs quite well with Windows 8.1, but it is only 15W TDP. Hard to beat for Kaveri, and it uses a Nvidia gpu so gaming is better too.

                        AMD really needs to have higher single threaded performance cores to be an alternative that doesn't compromise real world performance, otherwise most people will do like me and end up buying Intel. Total platform cost doesn't differ much even if the cpu is a few dollars cheaper. And in the ultra portable world like phones and tablets ARM already rules, being a headache even for Intel, AMD isn't even near a tablet design win afaik .... so, very cheap laptops could be the thing for Kaveri, possibly ...
                        Actually for real world performance it's just fine. It's competitive and even wins in the markets it's shooting for which is the segment for people not running discrete graphics cards, for the high end from AMD you currently want to be look at the FX-8350. They don't currently have a high end CPU for this generation.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
                          Actually for real world performance it's just fine. It's competitive and even wins in the markets it's shooting for which is the segment for people not running discrete graphics cards, for the high end from AMD you currently want to be look at the FX-8350. They don't currently have a high end CPU for this generation.
                          The market it's shooting for is probably almost non existent because anyone really interested in graphics performance will most likely run a discrete graphics card, and those not interested in graphics are probably more interested in cpu performance, which is Kaveris weak spot.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by xeizo View Post
                            The market it's shooting for is probably almost non existent because anyone really interested in graphics performance will most likely run a discrete graphics card, and those not interested in graphics are probably more interested in cpu performance, which is Kaveris weak spot.
                            Actually it's the largest segment, it's the segment for the average user and the lightweight gamer, for which it's performance is basically best in category, in terms of what matters to them. Further for the majority of the overall market, single threaded performance stopped mattering to their workloads with the advent of the Core 2 series. For programmers, and those abusing Excel, as well as enthusiasts sure there's much better things on the market... like the FX-8350 but this isn't targeted at them

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
                              Actually it's the largest segment, it's the segment for the average user and the lightweight gamer, for which it's performance is basically best in category, in terms of what matters to them. Further for the majority of the overall market, single threaded performance stopped mattering to their workloads with the advent of the Core 2 series. For programmers, and those abusing Excel, as well as enthusiasts sure there's much better things on the market... like the FX-8350 but this isn't targeted at them
                              You're hinting at those that don't even know what they are buying, as long as it works, sure. It is a niche. But consider those that do know that the cheapest Haswell Pentium outperforms this in most benchmarks, and couple that Pentium with a cheap discrete card at about the same cost as a single Kaveri and it outperforms the Kaveri on almost all fronts and certainly in graphics.

                              A Core i3 on the other hand is plenty faster, but then you wont be able to fit the graphics card within the same cost. But you have the Pentium AE, which can be overclocked, surprisingly it beats Kaveri in multithreading when OC:d using only 2 cores vs 4 cores.

                              Kaveri has the best igp, but it is too weak for contemporary 1080P-gaming, and the cpu is much weaker than the competition. If you're happy with low res and older games it will do, otherwise a cheap Intel + discrete gpu is the better choice cost/performance-wise.

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