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  • #16
    Originally posted by DanL View Post
    I don't use PA either, but that wasn't the point...



    So Ubuntu contributes to "upstream" projects and people need to stop repeating "Ubuntu doesn't contribute anything upstream" like parrots.
    OK so "doesn't" should be replaced with "extremely rarely and only on a few pointless projects that don't mean jack shit"

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DanL View Post
      That meme needs to die. For example, look at the pulseaudio 4.0 release notes: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Soft...dio/Notes/4.0/
      David Henningsson works for Canonical...

      As for losing official powerpc support, that's not surprising after they dropped non-PAE support. Ubuntu has become a very forward-looking distro.
      So lets summarize your comment:
      As proof that Canonical does contribute to upstream you list one guy. Are you serious?

      Second sentence is just PR and PAE is AFAIK an abomination.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Ramiliez View Post
        As proof that Canonical does contribute to upstream you list one guy. Are you serious?
        One example was sufficient to disprove the "Ubuntu does not contribute anything upstream" statement, so yes, I'm serious. (Are you serious or do you not understand basic logic?)

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        • #19
          Originally posted by duby229 View Post
          The third reason it urks the shit out of me is that when you look at it's bug tracker the vast majority of bugs get closed without -any- resolution because they blame most of them on Alsa even though Alsa works perfectly without PA.
          So, you have tested all of the code paths in ALSA that PA hits that other applications may not and verified that they work on all cards? The reality is that PA uses the ALSA API in ways slightly different than other applications do on account of its differing requirements. This causes it to expose bugs that other applications may not. It is hardly PA's fault if the layer under them is buggy; it is right to close the bug as invalid and file it upstream.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by ShadowBane View Post
            So, you have tested all of the code paths in ALSA that PA hits that other applications may not and verified that they work on all cards? The reality is that PA uses the ALSA API in ways slightly different than other applications do on account of its differing requirements. This causes it to expose bugs that other applications may not. It is hardly PA's fault if the layer under them is buggy; it is right to close the bug as invalid and file it upstream.
            The bottom line is, if PA is using the Alsa interface incorrectly then it is a problem PA. This "pass the buck" crap needs to stop. Alsa works just perfectly without PA. It's PA that doesnt work. It's for these reasons that PA should simply be forced to die. Every distro should boycott it. I can almost promise that if they did a new sound server would be implemented by someone somewhere. As the status quo is PA is doing nothing but hurting.
            Last edited by duby229; 07-30-2013, 12:37 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by duby229 View Post
              The bottom line is, if PA is using the Alsa interface incorrectly then it is a problem PA. This "pass the buck" crap needs to stop. Alsa works just perfectly without PA. It's PA that doesnt work. It's for these reasons that PA should simply be forced to die. Every distro should boycott it. I can almost promise that if they did a new sound server would be implemented by someone somewhere. As the status quo is PA is doing nothing but hurting.
              For my system it works better with PA then just Alsa. PA might not be using Alsa incorrectly and still hit issues, in that case it would be and Alsa issue. Your just as guilty of passing the blame to PA as some one saying that the issue is in Alsa.

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              • #22
                I can't say that I have every sound card that exists. I tend to stick with what I know works well. I love cmedia cards because there Alsa drivers are awesome. PA on the other hand hates them. It has nothing to do with the card or the drivers. They work perfectly. It is -only- when PA is forced on me that I get pops and skips and audio delay. Audio delay from my sound card out to my reciever can be multiple seconds when PA is used. With just Alsa the same config works perfectly.

                I can't talk for everyone, I can only talk for my own experience, which is fairly extensive, but not ultimately extensive.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Dukenukemx View Post
                  I have 12.04 on my PowerPC G4 laptop, and it's faster then Mac OSX and more capable. The major problem though is that it requires a lot of effort to get it working. Sound, video, and even being able to play YouTube videos. Back in 10.04 I could use compiz for nice effects for the desktop, but doesn't work in 12.04, even though I did get OpenGL acceleration working... painfully.
                  so ... you just drop this bomb and offer no tutorial no explanation no nothing ????????????


                  how about a lil guide my friend?

                  my attempt to get 12.10 to work on a g4

                  http://youtu.be/GjGeyolo6Xc

                  fuckin waste of time

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                    OK so "doesn't" should be replaced with "extremely rarely and only on a few pointless projects that don't mean jack shit"
                    Sigh.... I didn't say that. Even if you want to believe that no one uses pulseaudio, David H also contributes to ALSA kernel code (or do you consider that "pointless" too?).

                    Also, that is just one example that I knew off the top of my head. It doesn't mean there aren't other examples, but I'm not about to spend the rest of my afternoon spoon-feeding you git commits from Canonical employees...

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                      The bottom line is, if PA is using the Alsa interface incorrectly then it is a problem PA. This "pass the buck" crap needs to stop. Alsa works just perfectly without PA. It's PA that doesnt work. It's for these reasons that PA should simply be forced to die. Every distro should boycott it. I can almost promise that if they did a new sound server would be implemented by someone somewhere. As the status quo is PA is doing nothing but hurting.
                      Using parts of the API that are not frequently used and are not tested as well as they should be is not using the interface incorrectly. If the developers didn't mean for those parts of the API to be used they wouldn't have been part of the API to begin with. You really should get out of the habit of blaming downstream projects for upstream bugs. (Also ALSA drivers have gotten a /ton/ better due to the additional stuff that PA used that many other applications didn't.)

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by uid313 View Post
                        The idealist in me wants to see PowerPC supported, so you can run Linux on any platform and so there can be alternatives to x86.

                        The realist in me understands why they they drop PowerPC support. Too little market share, and no momentum behind it.
                        This is Unity, or the Ubuntu Desktop to be precise; you can always go minimal install or another distro and pick a lightweight desktop. Most powerpc systems i have seen have too little ram for the unity hog anyway, and usually an ancient ati gpu.

                        In reality Ubuntu dropped ppc support years ago, i think the images were still being built as a sort of unsupported community effort.

                        In short the headline is a lie, Ubuntu dropped PPC long ago.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by frign View Post
                          I don't consider Ubuntu a GNU/Linux-distribution anymore, because they don't contribute to upstream.
                          Ubuntu bundles both linux and gnu, it qualifies. They also comply with the license, which is release the code. Contributing back to upstream has never been an obligation. One of the 4 freedoms is anyone can modify the software to suit their needs, and release the source if released publicly.

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                          • #28
                            Contributing to upstream is not the problem - yes, strictly speaking, technically, Ubuntu does contribute to upstream projects.

                            The problem, as I see it, is more like that Ubuntu does not collaborate with the rest of the Linux ecosystem. They do needless and divisive forks, cause fragmentation (Mir), and do many things to make themselves separate and incompatible with the rest of the desktop Linux systems.

                            Ubuntu/Canonical has this sort of attitude problem. You only need to read Shuttleworth's posts to see it. It's always "we want to be leaders in the Linux world and others should follow us". That's just wrong. Leadership isn't something you just get by doing things your way, leadership is earned. They seem to think they can deviate from the rest of the Linux community however much they want, and the others will come around eventually and do things their way. But it seems like that's not happening, because people don't want to be dependent on Canonical, they don't want to give that amount of power to Canonical.

                            Now, whether it's still right to call Ubuntu a GNU/Linux distribution, is a question I don't really care about. Technically, it is GNU/Linux, since it provides the GNU userland and Linux kernel. But it's going further and further away from what is commonly understood to be a "desktop Linux" distribution.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DanL View Post
                              One example was sufficient to disprove the "Ubuntu does not contribute anything upstream" statement, so yes, I'm serious. (Are you serious or do you not understand basic logic?)
                              If you want to dispel that meme you have to try harder not just with single guy because it kinda proves hes point (Figure of speech rings ring any bells? If not return to school)

                              I am confident that you wont come up with any numbers whatsoever because it will show the truth and you dont want that.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by duby229 View Post
                                It is -only- when PA is forced on me that I get pops and skips and audio delay.
                                No problems at all with PA on all my Slackware systems. And no, PA is not part of the Slackware repository. If you use a crappy distro that forces things on you (and than those things don't even work) you are obviously using the wrong distro (why the hell are you even using a distro that forces things on you? I wouldn't even consider that an option). Have you tried different distros (you know that live media are available for most distros?) to rule out if your problems are really caused by PA in general and not only by the PA used in your distribution?

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