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  • Pentium G620 vs Liano...

    I need a really budget PC in order to replace my aged Athlon 64.
    I will run Linux and VM on that PC for common office work.
    My budget is no more than 200, and I really need Virtualization extensions and 8GB RAM. So, I believe that I have some very limited options:
    G620, A4 or used C2Duo E6700 as well as used Phenom II...

    What is your opinion on that?
    And I don't care too much about power consumption, but I do care about noise...

  • #2
    Originally posted by s91066 View Post
    I need a really budget PC in order to replace my aged Athlon 64.
    I will run Linux and VM on that PC for common office work.
    My budget is no more than 200€, and I really need Virtualization extensions and 8GB RAM. So, I believe that I have some very limited options:
    G620, A4 or used C2Duo E6700 as well as used Phenom II...

    What is your opinion on that?
    And I don't care too much about power consumption, but I do care about noise...
    i3-2105(hd3000) 110€
    H61b3 all-solid-cap MB - 50€
    8gb ddr3 ram - 40€

    See here: http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...nux-hardware-)

    Or, used phenom II x6 - ~100€
    all-solid-cap mb - 50€ with IGP.

    Will eat energy like popcorn, but has enough power to accelerate any video by pure generic hardware.
    Last edited by crazycheese; 02-05-2012, 10:01 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
      i3-2105(hd3000) 110
      H61b3 all-solid-cap MB - 50
      8gb ddr3 ram - 40

      See here: http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...nux-hardware-)

      Or, used phenom II x6 - ~100
      all-solid-cap mb - 50 with IGP.

      Will eat energy like popcorn, but has enough power to accelerate any video by pure generic hardware.
      you can get the phenomII x6 for the same price new: AMD Phenom II X4 960T ~104 you can unlock this cpu to an x6.
      but i think your price for the mainboard is to low i don't find any good mainboard for this price.
      for amd you need at minimum 65 for a "AMD 970/SB950 " chipset based mainboard.


      a FM1 amd mainboard is cheaper (with all features) : http://geizhals.at/de/675628 51,80
      and you get a quatcore + Radeon HD 6530D http://geizhals.at/de/653207 for 76,99 a FM1 system also can handle 32gb ram.

      i think for your low bugged a AMD A-Series A6-3650 system is the best solution.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
        you can get the phenomII x6 for the same price new: AMD Phenom II X4 960T ~104€ you can unlock this cpu to an x6.
        but i think your price for the mainboard is to low i don't find any good mainboard for this price.
        for amd you need at minimum 65€ for a "AMD 970/SB950 " chipset based mainboard.


        a FM1 amd mainboard is cheaper (with all features) : http://geizhals.at/de/675628 51,80
        and you get a quatcore + Radeon HD 6530D http://geizhals.at/de/653207 for 76,99€ a FM1 system also can handle 32gb ram.

        i think for your low bugged a AMD A-Series A6-3650 system is the best solution.
        MB: http://geizhals.at/de/623003 54€ at KMElektronik. This is retailer.
        CPU: http://geizhals.at/de/630279 116€ at KMElektronik.
        As you see, my prices are correct 1055 i3 is very very efficient dualcore, it is on paar to amd phenoms II x4.

        But, if you plan to game hard on linux, get phenom II x2, unlock two cores, buy used gtx260 sp 216 or gtx275 and have fun!
        Last edited by crazycheese; 02-05-2012, 02:19 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
          MB: http://geizhals.at/de/623003 54 at KMElektronik. This is retailer.
          he need much ram because of the virtual maschines and you calculate with only 2 ram slots?
          your main-board is just invalid! because you need 4 ram-slots!
          57 is the cheapest price for a main-board with 4 ram-slots and all-solid capacitors: http://geizhals.at/de/623000


          Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
          CPU: http://geizhals.at/de/630279 116 at KMElektronik.
          As you see, my prices are correct 1055 i3 is very very efficient dualcore,
          i prever the amd-llano solution its cheaper and a faster graphic card and a real quatcore cpu.

          Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
          it is on paar to amd phenoms II x4.
          i don't think so. my Phenom II x4 B50 does 14 000 mibs in 7zip.

          show me your test result of your intel dualcore playtoy.

          Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
          But, if you plan to game hard on linux, get phenom II x2, unlock two cores, buy used gtx260 sp 216 or gtx275 and have fun!
          i just don't understand the part with nvidia why supporting closed source?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
            he need much ram because of the virtual maschines and you calculate with only 2 ram slots?
            your main-board is just invalid! because you need 4 ram-slots!
            Dunno, 8x2 are maximum possible, means 16 gigs of ram. Thats a limit.
            Of course with 4 you will support 32 gigs and more flexibility, like buying 2x4 now and 2x8 later.
            But its really not big deal. I dont think 2x are limitation.

            Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
            i prever the amd-llano solution its cheaper and a faster graphic card and a real quatcore cpu.
            Intel are faster than liano using opensource driver. Intel already has video acceleration. Intel has very FAST cores especially for single or dual threading. It has HT which is used good.
            Llano is basically athlon II x4 with improved memory controller and I happen to own and use athlon II x4 630 now. i3-2105 is 1/3 faster at minimum.

            The only areas it will loose as dual core are properly threaded applications, like video encoding. Every other case, i3 will come on paar or sometimes win; this includes all normal-day work, energy efficiency (or room for some overclocking).

            You told me opencl video acceleration is in the works once, so factor number one remains opensource speed. Currently intel hd3000 wins in opensource speed.

            Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
            i don't think so. my Phenom II x4 B50 does 14 000 mibs in 7zip. show me your test result of your intel dualcore playtoy.
            I dont 7zip every day, but we can compare once I get to that i3-2105 next week.
            You use phoronix suite for testing? Tell me about the software you got 14k from and we can compare.

            Again, I wont be making fun of "dualcore playtoy once", this thing is dualcore monster. It could come on paar to intel i5-750 which is quadcore...

            Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
            i just don't understand the part with nvidia why supporting closed source?
            This part is very easy, nvidia has best driver with best support of wine and linux native applications.
            If you get cheap prev-generation card for 60-70$ on internet, this would be 1/2 or 1/3 of performance current 400$ cards, but it would be very very competative - fps based.
            You do buy external discrete gpu for fps, dont you?

            AMD opensource is crap for high-end cards, even used. Featurewise - it is not at opengl3. And AMD does not care if you buy their cards for opensource.
            Same for nouveau.
            The only point where price-wise AMD might win is llano + fglrx, which will make him battle fglrx vs wine. If he manages to get it, this will be faster than intels HD3000, but slower than nvidia blob+prevgen discrete gpu and thats really worth 60$. Once opendrivers are done, or amd reviews their very crappy position on opensource and becomes interested in selling hardware, you could sell nvidia card again. 60$ are not much of a loose...

            I didnt say Im supporting closed source! I said used prev-gen nvidia+blob will give maximum fps as discrete solution, if he would need discrete GPU.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
              Dunno, 8x2 are maximum possible, means 16 gigs of ram. Thats a limit.
              Of course with 4 you will support 32 gigs and more flexibility, like buying 2x4 now and 2x8 later.
              But its really not big deal. I dont think 2x are limitation.
              come one only stupid people save 7 to lose the chance to get 32gb ram.

              Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
              Intel are faster than liano using opensource driver. Intel already has video acceleration. Intel has very FAST cores especially for single or dual threading. It has HT which is used good.
              Llano is basically athlon II x4 with improved memory controller and I happen to own and use athlon II x4 630 now. i3-2105 is 1/3 faster at minimum.
              The only areas it will loose as dual core are properly threaded applications, like video encoding. Every other case, i3 will come on paar or sometimes win; this includes all normal-day work, energy efficiency (or room for some overclocking).
              i only count multicore software like: 7zip or video encoding because all other applications are just wrong developet.
              also linux is very good in multi-threated applications this means the amd-llano is better for linux.

              "You told me opencl video acceleration is in the works once, so factor number one remains opensource speed. Currently intel hd3000 wins in opensource speed."

              be sure the intel gpu can not handle openCL but amd working on openCL support for the opensource radeon driver. because of this the llano is the better solution.

              "I dont 7zip every day, but we can compare once I get to that i3-2105 next week.
              You use phoronix suite for testing? Tell me about the software you got 14k from and we can compare."

              i don't use phoronix suite i use wine+windows 7zip 32bit the internal benchmark.
              make a screenshot and post it here.

              "Again, I wont be making fun of "dualcore playtoy once", this thing is dualcore monster. It could come on paar to intel i5-750 which is quadcore..."

              i don't care about your talk i only care about multicore benchmarks.

              "This part is very easy, nvidia has best driver with best support of wine and linux native applications."

              not really i switch from nvidia to amd because closed source drivers are invalid for linux.

              "If you get cheap prev-generation card for 60-70$ on internet, this would be 1/2 or 1/3 of performance current 400$ cards, but it would be very very competative - fps based.
              You do buy external discrete gpu for fps, dont you?"

              amd's solution are cheaper thats a fact!

              "AMD opensource is crap for high-end cards, even used. Featurewise - it is not at opengl3."

              my driver report openGL 3? and i play oilrush ???

              "And AMD does not care if you buy their cards for opensource."

              sure but this dosn't matter they do it anyway.

              "Same for nouveau.
              The only point where price-wise AMD might win is llano + fglrx, which will make him battle fglrx vs wine. If he manages to get it, this will be faster than intels HD3000, but slower than nvidia blob+prevgen discrete gpu and thats really worth 60$. Once opendrivers are done, or amd reviews their very crappy position on opensource and becomes interested in selling hardware, you could sell nvidia card again. 60$ are not much of a loose..."

              just for the record wine works with catalyst but that is not the problem the problem with catalyst are the regresssion bugs and bugs and worse desktop speed.

              "I didnt say Im supporting closed source! I said used prev-gen nvidia+blob will give maximum fps as discrete solution, if he would need discrete GPU"

              i don't care. supporting closed source is just bad.

              Comment


              • #8
                Wow!
                I certainly didn't believe that I could create such a mess!

                Some points that obviously are missed:
                I don't have the money to buy anything else than the bare basics. The optimal solution for my job is i3, I know that. I don't play games, I don't watch 1080p video on my PC and I don't use Wine. Basically, my job is to evaluate Linux setups, so, I need good performance on VMWare/VirtualBox. So, I need a VGA card that is capable to render fast: KDE applications/desktop, Firefox, play (smoothly) Flash videos from youtube (and my experience says that I don't have the bandwidth to see 1080p from youtube, just 720p) and process some worksheets (maximum 2000lines).
                In other words, if I could have a good dual/quad core (even Athlon 64x2 on AM2 should do the trick!, CPU wise), I believe that I would be happy.

                From the discussion it's clear that the best option is to buy i3 with HD3000, but I cannot
                I remind you that the question was about Pentium G620...

                @Qaridarium: Are you sure that you can buy 32GBRAM? If you can spend that kind of money, I am sure that you will not miss the chance. But, I can only buy 8GB and at best 16GB, in the future. So, most people, buy the MB they can afford.

                Also, something that everybody forgot to mention: NOISE. Isn't it a Phenom based workstation more noisy than an i3?

                And a general note:
                I use Linux as my desktop for almost 10 years now. And so far, I have not found a descent open source VGA driver for ATI cards.
                I am forced to stay with an outdated distro because my VGA is not supported from ATI's blob driver. The open source, it can't even play 240p videos from youtube smoothly... So, it's blob all the way, even if it has a lot of bugs.

                Comment


                • #9
                  It must be impossible for you to add a gfx card for 20 bucks in case of problems? I really dont get it...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    get phenom II x2, unlock two cores,
                    Unlocking cores doesn't always work. I have a Phenom II X3 and the fourth core would never unlock (system wouldn't POST, even with extra voltage).
                    Also, the Phenom II x2 is still relatively expensive, when you can get an FX-4100 (3.6GHz Bulldozer quad-core) for a few more $.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      the videoplayback with open Radeon drivers with Radeon 3200 IGP is pretty ok. 480p WebM on YouTube is smooth (flash is a bit worse). If I want smooth 720p 30 fps playback I have to download it. My CPU is a Phenom X2 2 Core (CPU load if 720p video is played about 25-35% both cores), and my system Fedora 15 64 bit architecture.

                      If you use Opera, you could use the YouTube WebM Plus extension. No idea about WebM in open source browsers. And the extension to download videos is called FastestTube.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by s91066 View Post
                        Wow!
                        Some points that obviously are missed:
                        I don't have the money to buy anything else than the bare basics. The optimal solution for my job is i3, I know that. I don't play games, I don't watch 1080p video on my PC and I don't use Wine. Basically, my job is to evaluate Linux setups, so, I need good performance on VMWare/VirtualBox. So, I need a VGA card that is capable to render fast: KDE applications/desktop, Firefox, play (smoothly) Flash videos from youtube (and my experience says that I don't have the bandwidth to see 1080p from youtube, just 720p) and process some worksheets (maximum 2000lines).
                        .....
                        Also, something that everybody forgot to mention: NOISE. Isn't it a Phenom based workstation more noisy than an i3?

                        And a general note:
                        I use Linux as my desktop for almost 10 years now. And so far, I have not found a descent open source VGA driver for ATI cards.
                        I am forced to stay with an outdated distro because my VGA is not supported from ATI's blob driver. The open source, it can't even play 240p videos from youtube smoothly... So, it's blob all the way, even if it has a lot of bugs.
                        AMD has AMD-V which is Vt-x + Vt-d. Only locked versions of i7 have Vt-d, which is "Virtualization Technology for Directed I/O" and required for working hardware virtualized adress resolution. Basically, if you are about many VMs, get Xeon or AMD. This pretty much cuts any Intel options.

                        I would recommend you Athlon II x4 (only bad at gaming due to absent L2 cache, but overall on par to phenom II x4) with IGP3200 or lliano A4/6 ( = APU for free and athlon II x4 with improved memory controller).
                        I am not aware about opensource driver state from AMD side through for last 6 Months, but it is VERY strange flash is not working. All basic 2D should work, should be enough raw performance for h264 and opengl3 at 30-50% of hardware possible speed (with opensource).

                        System will be pretty cold. Hot CPUs are 6+ cores @ 3Ghz and up. Then you do like Qaridarium - put LARGE passive or 5v 12cm fan cooled heatsink.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Your cpu might have got AMD-Vi (not just AMD-V which is the same as VT-x), but you still need AMD 890FX or AMD 9xx chipsets to actually use it. None of those chipsets have got onboard vga, did you notice that? Basically VT-d is very rarely used, and for some ppl, add Michael to those, you need to disable it in the kernel, at least he thought it was a new bug introduced in kernel 3.2 when U switch the default for intel_iommon to on. You need really much luck that IOMMU really works, no matter if you use amd or intel systems.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ECC

                            I wonder what is the situation with ECC. My impression is that Intel reserve ECC support only for their server-class processors. Whereas AMD has ECC support in all processors. Then it's only a matter of having the ECC DIMMs. Or maybe the mainboard has to have the DIMM slots wired appropriately in order to have the ECC support. In any case, those will be unbuffered (unregistered, that's the same thing I think) DIMMs.

                            So, does anyone have any real experience in this? I'd very much like to to have ECC in my budget server but information about that is very difficult to come by.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by kobblestown View Post
                              Whereas AMD has ECC support in all processors.
                              I don't think this is true. ECC is only supported in Opterons, AFAIK.

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