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AMD Phenom II TDP and underclokcing / undervolting

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  • #16
    If you want, you can suck it up and try to wait for bulldozer with their powergated cores and improved TURBOcore

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Max Spain View Post
      FWIW I have a P2 965 running at stock clocks 3.4/2.0 @ 1.2375 Vcore, 1.1250 NB. It is stable and uses far less power. Sadly I do not remember how much.

      My Atom 330 system uses ~42 - 43 watts with 1 7200RPM drive under a full CPU load. It also takes 8 hours to do 1 of 2 passes on a 1.5 hr SD video encode to Theora.
      Phenom II 965 normal and 1.2v undervolt, without vga.
      Normal 1.4 (CPU only / CPU+MB) -> Idle: 15w/109w, Load: 165w /277w
      Undervolt 1.2 (CPU only/CPU+MB) -> 1dle 14w/106w, Load: 111w /220w

      Atom 330
      Normal 330 dualcore (4HT) (CPU+MB) -> Idle: 30w, Load: 41w

      Atom 220 on nvidia ion
      Normal 220+ion single core(2HT) (CPU+GPU+MB) -> Idle: 16w, Load: 26w

      Lets take a version you watch one movie daily - thats 2 hrs/1 day.
      365*2= 730hrs/year
      Europe best energy cost: 10/Month + 0,20*kW/hr
      For a year thats: 120 + 0,20*kW/hrs

      For undervolted AMD Phenom II always idling at watching movies vs always full load ion:
      0,20*0,111kW*730= 16/year
      0,20*0,026kW*730= 3,7 year

      Realistically I seriously doubt phenom will idle at movie play. Or igp/discrete gfx card it uses will idle, so its absolutely best case.

      ion system cost is around 100. Do you need it - I think yes if you use around 4hrs a day for 3 years.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
        Phenom II 965 normal and 1.2v undervolt, without vga.
        Normal 1.4 (CPU only / CPU+MB) -> Idle: 15w/109w, Load: 165w /277w
        Undervolt 1.2 (CPU only/CPU+MB) -> 1dle 14w/106w, Load: 111w /220w

        .....
        0,20€*0,111kW*730= 16€/year
        0,20€*0,026kW*730= 3,7€ year
        Uh sorry, I made a mistake above. Thats not 111W, thats 106W.The rest is correct.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
          Uh sorry, I made a mistake above. Thats not 111W, thats 106W.The rest is correct.
          why not use an amd fusion system?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
            why not use an amd fusion system?
            No video acceleration afaik, or will have to use windows and amd windows driver. Also the thermal management is worser(I think K10 athlon/phenom I-II are on core2duo/quad level), but yes, if the video card would take the task and downclock it won't be a problem.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
              No video acceleration afaik, or will have to use windows and amd windows driver. Also the thermal management is worser(I think K10 athlon/phenom I-II are on core2duo/quad level), but yes, if the video card would take the task and downclock it won't be a problem.
              last night i test flash h264 video test video on youtube on an radeon driver based on kubuntu 11.04 and the video runs fine on 1080p

              sure its an passiv cooled hd5450+passiv cooled phenomIIdualcore@2,6ghz (downclocked)

              means in REAL for some systems you just don't need video acceleration.

              maybe bobcat is to slow but Llano is much faster thats for sure.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                means in REAL for some systems you just don't need video acceleration.

                maybe bobcat is to slow but Llano is much faster thats for sure.
                Yes, if cpu is ok (and one 2ghz k7 core is already enough for h264) thats no problem.
                But then you get a disadvantage of power mgmnt on current selling K10. Intel would already be better with core i+ in long run.If bulldozer comes this may change(I hope it will).

                As for gpu, I dont want to touch catalyst, not even for testing. It was plain horror. Maybe I will boot my system on LiveCD to test it soon on vaapi, when I sell amd and get nvidia card(don get me wrong I strong dislike nvidia, but there is no choice from amd). I know that nvidia vdpau works even on ion, and nvidia has been ignorant to some hw support cases, but amd current policy is not acceptable for me now. I dont want windows and I want working hardware(long window, 3d features, stable, hw video decode logic) or the real strong line behind rising opensource that is internally better. Nothing here from AMD, but I don't want to hijack the thread with my situation.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                  Yes, if cpu is ok (and one 2ghz k7 core is already enough for h264) thats no problem.
                  But then you get a disadvantage of power mgmnt on current selling K10. Intel would already be better with core i+ in long run.If bulldozer comes this may change(I hope it will).

                  As for gpu, I dont want to touch catalyst, not even for testing. It was plain horror. Maybe I will boot my system on LiveCD to test it soon on vaapi, when I sell amd and get nvidia card(don get me wrong I strong dislike nvidia, but there is no choice from amd). I know that nvidia vdpau works even on ion, and nvidia has been ignorant to some hw support cases, but amd current policy is not acceptable for me now. I dont want windows and I want working hardware(long window, 3d features, stable, hw video decode logic) or the real strong line behind rising opensource that is internally better. Nothing here from AMD, but I don't want to hijack the thread with my situation.
                  the fusions are a choice if you wana save powerconsuming...
                  and no the fusion is not the same like old K10 cpus in power saving options.
                  the fusion do have 1-3 watt in idle and 18 watt REAL-max-TDP (not the intel funny TDP).

                  and amd (bridgman) work right now about openup the UVD unit for the radeon driver.

                  and the Google chrom browser accelerate WebM in Shaders and you also can accelerat h264 in shaders.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                    Yes, if cpu is ok (and one 2ghz k7 core is already enough for h264) thats no problem.
                    But then you get a disadvantage of power mgmnt on current selling K10. Intel would already be better with core i+ in long run.If bulldozer comes this may change(I hope it will).
                    fusion allready chance this exampel:

                    http://geizhals.at/a610927.html

                    bobcat fusion really beats all other solutions in power saving.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Qaridarium View Post
                      and amd (bridgman) work right now about openup the UVD unit for the radeon driver.

                      and the Google chrom browser accelerate WebM in Shaders and you also can accelerat h264 in shaders.
                      Thanks for the link! That pretty much kicks Intel ATOM 330 out, but not ION. I saw that MB still use IGP 6310 - UVD is a must if target is ION. And thats full UVD3.

                      Thats nice that Bridgeman does, but I didn't like his reactions and that of Xorg dev team (again, thats personal reception) - it made me think its gonna be complete in 20 years and even then at the same time result won't be usable with the modern hardware. Either polished outdated technology as opensource, or proprietary and modern. Nvidia already has modern and proprietary (but you know). This leaves AMD be choice for very old systems.

                      I use quadcore with 4 gigs of ddr3-1600 with linux on home desktop, now.

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                      • #26
                        http://geizhals.at/a613148.html
                        uATX package

                        review: http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/c...ro_micro_atx/1

                        "In a nutshell, the Asus E35M1-M PRO is everything a typical Atom Dual Core + ION offering is, but noticeably better. Those who wish to use the board as a HTPC or NAS box will be pleased by the flexible storage options and the passive/low noise operation. Also we have shown that 1080p is doable with no trouble at all."

                        That was when using windows as os.
                        On linux this comes to nvidia vs amd... you understand.

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                        • #27
                          Hi,

                          if you want a silent, cool and power-saving system and if you are willing to invest some money into a new motherboard, too, you maybe should just take one of the new Core i5 in combination with a 1155 motherboard.

                          For example, the Core i5-2500 easily outperforms the fastest AMD hexacore available at the moment (at least regarding to cpubenchmark.net), it consumes significant less power (especially under load) and stays cooler. For almost the same price!

                          Nevertheless, i happen to use an undervolted (and unlocked) Phenom II system

                          Here is some data you might be interested in:

                          System specs:

                          Phenom II X4 B50 (Phenom II X2 B550, all cores unlocked) @ 3.1 Ghz
                          Scythe Samurai ZZ
                          MSI 785GM-E51
                          Geforce 450GTS
                          3x HDD
                          2x optical drive

                          I use "k10ctl" to undervolt the cpu for all available p-states (800 Mhz, 1900 Mhz, 2400 Mhz, 3100 Mhz).

                          It runs stable with the following settings:
                          800 Mhz @ 0.8V
                          1900 Mhz @ 1.0 V
                          2400 Mhz @ 1.075V
                          3100 Mhz @ 1.275V

                          Unfortunately, after unlocking, the thermal sensors for coretemp don't work anymore, so i only have values for temp1:

                          idle: ~ 36-39 C / fan @ ~ 500 rpm
                          load: ~ 55-58 C / fan @ ~ 1400 rpm


                          Power consumption (for the whole system, including hard drives, optical drives, graphics card) according to my measuring device (a rather cheap one, so might be inaccurate):

                          idle: 70W
                          load (4x mprime -t): 170W

                          If you have any more questions, feel free to ask!

                          -hanky-

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                          • #28
                            Or even better, buy quad amd magny cours and 24 Gigs of registered ECC ram - you will able to play over 3000 movies at once!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by crazycheese View Post
                              Or even better, buy quad amd magny cours and 24 Gigs of registered ECC ram - you will able to play over 3000 movies at once!
                              Regarding to the first post, the thread starter wants to upgrade his current system and therefore mentioned two possible options:

                              AMD Phenom II X4 910e (~ 125 )
                              AMD Phenom II X6 1055T (~ 145 )

                              No matter which of both he would take - they would both be significantly faster than your idea, which iirc would be an atom/ion system (which is incredibly slow in comparison, just to make it clear again).

                              A Core i5 would be oversized, but as i said it would also consume less power and stay cooler - not to mention that it is faster. So there would be absolutely no disadvantage, except that he would have to buy a new motherboard (ok, which isn't available at the moment ).

                              Nevertheless, i don't see why he should literally downgrade to an ion system when his first intention was to upgrade...

                              Don't get me wrong, there are several occasions in which an atom/ion combination fits - but not this one, except he accepts to buy new hardware that runs even slower than his current setup.

                              -hanky-

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                              • #30
                                Core i5 1156 is a goner. Core ix-xx00 (sandy bridge) is very buggy in current revisions, it works good only on w7 and only on some applications. The guy has already good system and you ask him to sell it (cpu+mb) and buy equivalent system that is more expensive (,buggy) and still eats a LOT of electricity compared to ION/Zambezi(provided AMD ever fixes UVD). Of course core-i/i-xx00 are more energy efficient, but he already had them and if you undervolt the usage will drop to 85-90 watt idle vs 70-80 watt idle of intel - it will not pay itself back. Better get dedicated HTPC with small usage or get a basic discrete gfx card that can accelerate video (gf 430 etc)

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