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  • #31
    Originally posted by deanjo View Post
    I would stay away from the 7200.12's as well. I've personally had a couple of 1.5 TB drives 7200.12's that died (bad sectors) within a period of 48 hours of being used bought from two different suppliers. I was asking my local supplier about them as well and I guess the RMA rate on them is so high that they are going to drop the seagate line all together.
    Deanjo,

    There is no 7200.12 with 1.5TB size and never was. Some websites speculate Seagate may release one, but currently the 1.5TB Seagates are the 7200.11 (firmware problems) or 5900.12 (5900rpm, low power). You have misidentified your troubled product, and you have now misinformed & confused others. You should be more careful & accurate when you badmouth a product.

    It's silly to drop Seagate b/c of one troubled product like the 7200.11. If you look at storagereview.com you will clearly see that every disk manufacturer WD, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Maxtor have had "klinker" product families. When it becomes a pattern then it might make sense, but that is not the case for Seagate. WD is IMO worse, and Hitachi has had more spectacular disk-family failures.

    Also important to me is that the 7200.11 fiasco was due to firmware and not a mechanical issue. It appears that Seagate shipped the original 7200.11s with a firmware problem that could cause permanent failure. The first updated firmware had an equally evil bug. Reports indicate the 3rd firmware set for this family is fine, but I have no direct experience. I'd rather just avoid that line and get the lower power and generally higher performance 7200.12s

    It's also the reason you should do some homework before buying any drive. The customer reviews of newegg or the forums of storagereview would have allowed you to easily avoid your bad experience.

    -S
    Last edited by stevea; 07-07-2009, 03:38 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by stevea View Post
      Deanjo,

      There is no 7200.12 with 1.5TB size and never was. Some websites speculate Seagate may release one, but currently the 1.5TB Seagates are the 7200.11 (firmware problems) or 5900.12 (5900rpm, low power). You have misidentified your troubled product, and you have now misinformed & confused others. You should be more careful & accurate when you badmouth a product.

      It's silly to drop Seagate b/c of one troubled product like the 7200.11. If you look at storagereview.com you will clearly see that every disk manufacturer WD, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Maxtor have had "klinker" product families. When it becomes a pattern then it might make sense, but that is not the case for Seagate. WD is IMO worse, and Hitachi has had more spectacular disk-family failures.

      Also important to me is that the 7200.11 fiasco was due to firmware and not a mechanical issue. It appears that Seagate shipped the original 7200.11s with a firmware problem that could cause permanent failure. The first updated firmware had an equally evil bug. Reports indicate the 3rd firmware set for this family is fine, but I have no direct experience. I'd rather just avoid that line and get the lower power and generally higher performance 7200.12s

      It's also the reason you should do some homework before buying any drive. The customer reviews of newegg or the forums of storagereview would have allowed you to easily avoid your bad experience.

      -S
      Right looking back at the receipts the 7200.12 that died in 48 hours were 1TB's. They were replacing the "fixed" 1.5TB - 7200.11's. as well as a bunch of 500GB 7200.11's.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by gururise View Post
        What exactly are you going to be doing with your server? That will determine whether or not you need a 5050e.
        I described that in the top of post#1 and along the way.

        Originally posted by gururise View Post
        While the low power parts from AMD tied with a descent IGP motherboard (780g) are excellent parts, your still probably looking at a total system idle of between 45 - 65 watts (depending on the efficiency of your power supply).
        Agreed,

        Originally posted by gururise View Post
        Have you looked at the BeagleBoard? Its a fanless single board computer based on the Arm Cortex-A8 core. Costs $149, idles at 1 watt (5 watts at max CPU) and is probably about as fast as an Atom based computer.
        I have seen it. I use another OMAP3 processor at work, we ported a BSD style OS ported to it. It is a sweet little embedded CPU, but it doesn't come close to an Intel Atom330 (perhaps half the performance). The Beagle doesn't have the interfaces needed, not even close. I have a NAS at home w/ a 500Mhz Marvell ARM using SATA & GigE and the CPU can't keep up. The OMAP is clearly a bit faster, but still will fall far short.

        Has a DSP core, people are watching 1080p video on it.
        TI (the cpu mfgr) makes the OMAP for music/vid handheld use, so this is what the architecture does well.

        TI has an OMAP4 family of ARM Cortex-A9 parts announced that go at least to 1Ghz, but I haven't seen enough details.


        I agree that there are probably are some <10Watt CPUs out there that can do the job, but they either cost a lot or else are configured (like the beagleboard) w/o sufficient peripherals.

        It's a shame. I can imagine a lot of uses for say an OMAP3 on stackable PC104+ form factor to you could made a decent low power system - totally customized. The typical cost is a deal-killer tho'.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by deanjo View Post
          Right looking back at the receipts the 7200.12 that died in 48 hours were 1TB's. They were replacing the "fixed" 1.5TB - 7200.11's. as well as a bunch of 500GB 7200.11's.
          You didn't correctly ID the drives you report you returned.
          You didn't even know they were 1TBs and not 1.5TBs.

          No one believes that Seagate (you mentioned the RMAs) replaces their 1GB 7200.12 with a 1.5TB 7200.11 - that not a policy any mfgr uses on RMAs. They certainly replace with the same model if it's still shipping and commonly refuse to change models on RMAs.

          Somehow your credibility on the matter has gone missing, and your story doesn't pass the sniff test.

          Care to post the web page for the drives you RMA'ed ? They send you a link. It's about the only evidence I'd accept for your obviously distorted comments.

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          • #35
            This topic has heated up again recenly b/c
            /The vid card fans on both old P4 systems have started making rude noises
            /The N.bridge fan on my P4 server has started acting flakey
            /I' jonesin' for a system build.

            So I was just about convinced to buy the 5050e, except it's an older technology, no hyperchannel and getting hard to find the part, then I came a this ...
            http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...59-7.htmlcross So the system idle power for their Intel E7200 and E8500 systems bracket the 5050e system power. The intel dual core parts outperforms the 5050e in cpu performance per watt when it is loaded.
            The E7200 clearly beats the 5050e, and very probably true for the E8500 too.

            Problem is the E7200 is hard to find, perhaps de-clocking an e7400 gets you to a similar place. Then again there are the E4xxx and E6300 which probably use more power (65nm vs 45nm). So maybe a low-end E7xxx or E8xxx would be a best-fit here.

            FWIW some recent test systems at Smallnetbuilder lead me to think an Atom330 could probably handle the workload, but finding such a board with enough SATA/PATA interfaces is impossible.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by stevea View Post
              You didn't correctly ID the drives you report you returned.
              You didn't even know they were 1TBs and not 1.5TBs.

              No one believes that Seagate (you mentioned the RMAs) replaces their 1GB 7200.12 with a 1.5TB 7200.11 - that not a policy any mfgr uses on RMAs. They certainly replace with the same model if it's still shipping and commonly refuse to change models on RMAs.

              Somehow your credibility on the matter has gone missing, and your story doesn't pass the sniff test.

              Care to post the web page for the drives you RMA'ed ? They send you a link. It's about the only evidence I'd accept for your obviously distorted comments.
              Within the return period of the drives Seagate tells you to return to place of purchase for quick exchange. Hell even maximumPC when reviewing Seagates new NAS solution that uses the 7200.11 1.5 TB experienced a drive failure within the first few hours of use.

              http://fixunix.com/storage/505151-se...lure-rate.html
              Last edited by deanjo; 07-29-2009, 11:24 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                Within the return period of the drives Seagate tells you to return to place of purchase for quick exchange. Hell even maximumPC when reviewing Seagates new NAS solution that uses the 7200.11 1.5 TB experienced a drive failure within the first few hours of use.

                http://fixunix.com/storage/505151-se...lure-rate.html
                Yes, I completely agree. The 7200.11 w/ the 1st & 2nd revision firmware were terrible. The current 3rd rev *seems* to have solved the problem. This has nothing (apparently) to do w/ the drive size, all the 7200.11 initially had a firmware problems.

                What I don't agree w/ is your comment that your 1.5TB 7200.12's didn't work. There was no such disk ever built. Further the largest 7200.12 at 1TB seems to have a very good track record (except that writes are a little slower than I hoped). That doesn't mean that there aren't infant deaths.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by stevea View Post
                  Yes, I completely agree. The 7200.11 w/ the 1st & 2nd revision firmware were terrible. The current 3rd rev *seems* to have solved the problem. This has nothing (apparently) to do w/ the drive size, all the 7200.11 initially had a firmware problems.

                  What I don't agree w/ is your comment that your 1.5TB 7200.12's didn't work. There was no such disk ever built. Further the largest 7200.12 at 1TB seems to have a very good track record (except that writes are a little slower than I hoped). That doesn't mean that there aren't infant deaths.
                  And I corrected the statement:

                  Right looking back at the receipts the 7200.12 that died in 48 hours were 1TB's. They were replacing the "fixed" 1.5TB - 7200.11's. as well as a bunch of 500GB 7200.11's.
                  The 1.5's were the latest version after the "fix" was introduced for the 7200.11 1.5's. Trying the 7200.12 1TB's made no difference in reliability. The 500's also included the newest "fixed" firmware. Again these were not "drives" not showing up after power down. These were ever increaseing bad sector count and "head hammering to death" issues. I might also add that many NAS solutions and raid cards do not support the seagate drives (7200.11's especially noted) in their solutions just for this very reason. Even Seagate does not recommend using these drives in a raid setup other then a simple mirror. They will be the first to tell you to look at their enterprise series for anything but the simplest of raid setups.
                  Last edited by deanjo; 07-29-2009, 05:57 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Hephasteus View Post
                    LE is good choice but 5050e would probably work a bit better. You can easily cool them. Heat sinks without fans on them being cooled by case fans don't work too well. There's just not much mass flow of air going over them unless you can duct the case fan to within an inch or 2 of the cpu. 4850 and 5050e can be undervolted and declocked slightly to bring it's TPD down to around 20 to 25 watts.

                    4850e and 5050e are going to be impossible to beat for flexibility. You can declock it devolt it into your power requirement range much easier than you can overclock overvolt atom to meet the requirements. It will beat any mobile chip on processing per watt but is simply too big to use in laptops and nettops.

                    It'll fight voltage settings but here's pretty good estimates of power usage on a 4850e 5050e

                    1.6 ghz set at .9 volt wants to use about .93 volts uses about 9 to 11 watts idle and 14 15 full tilt
                    2.2 ghz set at 1 volt wants to use about 1.05 uses about 18 to 20 idle and 24 to 26 full tilt.
                    2.4 ghz set at 1.1 volts wants to use about 1.07 volts uses about 20 to 22 idle and 26 to 28 full tilt.

                    About double the processing power on half the power of anything LE can do because its dual core with hyperthreading. And 65nm high metal gate versus 90 to 65nm normal silicon gate.

                    A microatx 8200 based board or 780G based board is going to be cheapest. You could make it entirely silent by making some heatpipes out of silver or copper .375 tubing and drilling some holes in the stock cpu heatsink and 8200/780G chip and routing the tubes to some part of the case and bolting them to drive cages or motherboard trays or backside of the case or top side of the case. You'd have to remove heatsinks to remove motherboard etc but the silence may be worth it.
                    If you got the time and energy go crazy if you don't go easy. Just know that planning on a single 800 rpm 120mm fan and planning on no fans at all is a big jump in effort and any 120mm fan plugged into the fan cpu fan slot even with cool and quiet disabled is going to be deathly silent. My 1500 rpm vantec's that normally run about 1430 usually run about sub 1000 rpms on the cpu fan connector.
                    thanks for your suggestion
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                    • #40
                      BTW, I was looking at low-power CPUs at the weekend for a faster machine to replace my current MythTV backend/NAS server and noticed that the 4850e/5050e seem near impossible to find now. However, there's a Phenom II X4 rated at 65W which looks interesting if you think you might ever need that level of CPU performance.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by movieman View Post
                        BTW, I was looking at low-power CPUs at the weekend for a faster machine to replace my current MythTV backend/NAS server and noticed that the 4850e/5050e seem near impossible to find now. However, there's a Phenom II X4 rated at 65W which looks interesting if you think you might ever need that level of CPU performance.
                        I'd be interested in some power figures of these new Phenoms, since the 65W is a TDP, so the max. of heat going through the chimney. On idle it should be way lower. Also I think these new phenoms can switch off cores if unneeded and asymetrically clock down/up cores to the needs.
                        Anybody ever measured or read a test?

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                        • #42
                          Marked! I will check it later!thanks a lot.
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