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Upcoming Maxwell GPUs Will Support H.265, But VP9 Is Uncertain

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  • Upcoming Maxwell GPUs Will Support H.265, But VP9 Is Uncertain

    Phoronix: Upcoming Maxwell GPUs Will Support H.265, But VP9 Is Uncertain

    NVIDIA launched their GeForce GTX 750 graphics cards back in February as their first products based upon their new Maxwell architecture. Sadly those GPUs didn't support any H.265 or VP9 acceleration, but at least it looks like the former will be supported by the next round of Maxwell GPUs...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTY4NTg

  • #2
    Too bad, we definitely need VP8 or VP9 (preferably) hardware support.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Calinou View Post
      Too bad, we definitely need VP8 or VP9 (preferably) hardware support.
      From an end user POV, I can't see it being a "need" more than being a "bonus" as there are not too many (if any at all) VP8/9 exclusive sites.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by deanjo View Post
        From an end user POV, I can't see it being a "need" more than being a "bonus" as there are not too many (if any at all) VP8/9 exclusive sites.
        If you live in the US, and are encoding video, say to put on youtube, you are violating MPEG-LA licensing terms by using x264, for example. And how many commercial h.264 encoders are people using? The entire industry seems to be x264 anyway, and it is basically a time bomb waiting to blow whenever MPEG-LA goes all Oracle on everyone, or at least x264 distributors.

        We need an open codec that isn't a legal black hole. I'm still hoping Dalaa can be accelerated with openCL enough to do a good job, because vp9 is more of a stop gap based on old tech and it isn't really competitive with either h.264/5 at all.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Calinou View Post
          Too bad, we definitely need VP8 or VP9 (preferably) hardware support.
          Even better, what we really need is Daala.

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          • #6
            If there won't be dedicated support in Maxwell GPU's for VP9, an OpenCL video decoder could be developed and used as a fall-back solution.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by zanny View Post
              If you live in the US, and are encoding video, say to put on youtube, you are violating MPEG-LA licensing terms by using x264, for example. And how many commercial h.264 encoders are people using? The entire industry seems to be x264 anyway, and it is basically a time bomb waiting to blow whenever MPEG-LA goes all Oracle on everyone, or at least x264 distributors.

              We need an open codec that isn't a legal black hole. I'm still hoping Dalaa can be accelerated with openCL enough to do a good job, because vp9 is more of a stop gap based on old tech and it isn't really competitive with either h.264/5 at all.
              For once, someone is not defending H.264/H.265 too much.

              The main issue I have with VP8 (I don't use VP9 currently) is the encoding times (in OpenShot), but that's not a problem if I just record a video using SimpleScreenRecorder without editing it.

              Originally posted by mmstick View Post
              Even better, what we really need is Daala.
              It's not quite ready yet.

              Originally posted by plonoma View Post
              If there won't be dedicated support in Maxwell GPU's for VP9, an OpenCL video decoder could be developed and used as a fall-back solution.
              Would it work in all applications, or would it have to be implemented for each application?

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              • #8
                Would it work in all applications, or would it have to be implemented for each application?
                It would be a part of the encoder / decoder most likely, rather than built int vaapi or vdpau. You would just have an opencl based Dalaa or vp9 encoder / decoder that you ship as a gstreamer plugin or get into ffmpeg, and everyone would be able to use it from there.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by zanny View Post
                  If you live in the US, and are encoding video, say to put on youtube, you are violating MPEG-LA licensing terms by using x264, for example.
                  Sorry but that is pure FUD. There is absolutely no violation in such case.

                  http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/26/m...s-long-as-its/

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/M...tent_licensing
                  Last edited by deanjo; 05-10-2014, 10:32 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by zanny View Post
                    It would be a part of the encoder / decoder most likely, rather than built int vaapi or vdpau. You would just have an opencl based Dalaa or vp9 encoder / decoder that you ship as a gstreamer plugin or get into ffmpeg, and everyone would be able to use it from there.
                    Exactly, applications can choose to have the OpenCL encoder / decoder built in or use a video codec framework e.g. gstreamer or ffmpeg. Even offer the user the choice between different built in and not built in framework codec encoders / decoders.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by plonoma View Post
                      Exactly, applications can choose to have the OpenCL encoder / decoder built in or use a video codec framework e.g. gstreamer or ffmpeg. Even offer the user the choice between different built in and not built in framework codec encoders / decoders.
                      Utilizing a openCL encoder/decoder is more then likely going to be far less energy efficient than dedicated logic to do so. As the handbrake crew has found out, openCL has limits for encoding/decoding and dedicated hardware blows right by it in terms of efficiency and performance.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                        Utilizing a openCL encoder/decoder is more then likely going to be far less energy efficient than dedicated logic to do so. As the handbrake crew has found out, openCL has limits for encoding/decoding and dedicated hardware blows right by it in terms of efficiency and performance.
                        The problem with dedicated hardware though is that it has very limited support for compression technologies and formats, so you lose quality for the sake of compatibility. I still vote for proper support for Daala over H.265 or VP9. There is a possibility that it will get support for OpenCL beyond simple multithreaded de/encoding so even if it doesn't get hardware support, at least it will have good performance by itself. CPUs have shrunk to the point that the energy consumed by software rendering is still relatively non-existent. In example, I have a laptop that consumes no more than 5W when decoding a 1080p 10-bit H.264 video with software.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mmstick View Post
                          The problem with dedicated hardware though is that it has very limited support for compression technologies and formats, so you lose quality for the sake of compatibility. I still vote for proper support for Daala over H.265 or VP9. There is a possibility that it will get support for OpenCL beyond simple multithreaded de/encoding so even if it doesn't get hardware support, at least it will have good performance by itself. CPUs have shrunk to the point that the energy consumed by software rendering is still relatively non-existent. In example, I have a laptop that consumes no more than 5W when decoding a 1080p 10-bit H.264 video with software.
                          1080 is a pretty low entry level now days and 5 watts is still fairly high when you have dedicated hardware that does it in less than half a watt. I'm decoding and playing back 4k 60P h264 content easily on a lowly celeron 1610 with a GTX 750ti and power consumption barely rises above idle @ ~4% cpu utilization.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by deanjo View Post
                            1080 is a pretty low entry level now days and 5 watts is still fairly high when you have dedicated hardware that does it in less than half a watt. I'm decoding and playing back 4k 60P h264 content easily on a lowly celeron 1610 with a GTX 750ti and power consumption barely rises above idle @ ~4% cpu utilization.
                            I wasn't aware that movies and TV came in a resolution beyond 1080p @ 24 FPS. 5 Watts really isn't that much -- even my graphics card in my desktop consumes more than that when idle. Looking at the new mobile APUs, they can probably do what my laptop does in less than a watt. The space savings I get from having all my content encoded at maximum compression parameters with 10-bit H.264 is enough to save the need to buy multiple 3TB hard drives with a greater risk for drive failure.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mmstick View Post
                              I wasn't aware that movies and TV came in a resolution beyond 1080p @ 24 FPS.
                              JVC GY-HMQ10 footage. There are also 4k streams available online from youtube. (Netflix also just started streaming 4k on a few titles).

                              http://blog.netflix.com/2014/05/netf...tra-hd-4k.html

                              5 Watts really isn't that much -- even my graphics card in my desktop consumes more than that when idle. Looking at the new mobile APUs, they can probably do what my laptop does in less than a watt. The space savings I get from having all my content encoded at maximum compression parameters with 10-bit H.264 is enough to save the need to buy multiple 3TB hard drives with a greater risk for drive failure.
                              5 Watts is still roughly 20 times the amount of power required than what dedicated hardware can offer. Don't forget that commercially available content is going to be encoded to the capabilities of what the baseline is for dedicated hardware can handle. They have to keep their content playable on the mainstream AV equipment.
                              Last edited by deanjo; 05-10-2014, 10:40 PM.

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